8 replies to this topic

[Trepur]

So after watching the anime I am now reading the manga and am part way though (44 chapters).

Reading the event where Koga defeated Medaka despite Medaka having her abnormality, watching the anime to me this didn't make sense. I was not satisfied with the answer that having no personality even with super powers you would still lose. (Was anyone satisfied with the explanation given in the anime/manga?)

However I think I have figured out why. (This will contain spoilers up to the end of the flask plan arc but please don't spoil anything past that, well if you do put it in a spoiler box like this:

Spoiler

Spoiler alert Medaka dies or something stupid like that

Since (at least in the anime) later in the flask plan arc. it is revealed that Medeka's abnormality is that she is able to copy the abilities of others and perfect them (ie do it better then they could).

Since she lost her memories, all the powers that she copied over the years were forgotten, and so she could no longer imitate the powers, making her abnormality rather useless for the first time she ever fights.

I think this is a much better explanation then the one given in the manga.

Is it later revealed that I am wrong? Or is this a possible explanation that the author was hinting at?

If your answer contains events that happen after the flask plan, please put them in a spoiler box and tell us outside the box (so I know when I am allowed to read the spoilers) what chapters you are referring to inside the spoiler.

Thank you,
Trepur

Edited by Trepur, 27 December 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Squirly]

Well, I'm not going to spoil anything because I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand "how" certain fights get resolved at all. If you're having trouble with that, wait till you get to the later chapters. I don't really know far the anime is, but the 'word' users are beyond ridiculous. It doesn't help that a lot of their "words" are based on japanese terms which don't necessarily make sense in context when translated.

Anyway, just wanted to add that, being of no help whatsoever.

[Trepur]

word users?

And lol, its not that I don't always want an explination to be given, but I want an explination to be implied. I don't like it when someone wins because of fighting spirit or some dumb shit like that. Skills and training should matter more then your will to win. And I think my explanation adequately explains why Medaka could lose to Koga and still be considered the near omnipotent being that she is.

[Secros Matias Supreme]

Even deleating her abnormality, medaka is still medaka because she does not rely on her abnormality.

Deleting her personality means deleating medaka. Even having the end and coping all those skills, she cannot win because she was no longer medaka.

Like when medaka got book maker she became Kumagawa but because of her past and the burdens of both allies and ennemies, she won.

But having no memories, having no past, she lost.

A shoen protagonist fights for her friends, and past ennemies.

[lamorach]

I wanna have some fun and put it in RPG terms. It deleveled her all of her experiences were gone so even though she has epic special abilities they haven't been unlocked yet. Her stats may be naturally high since abnormality is a starting thing. But she doesn't know how to use it 'cuz she's back to level one. The fact that she didn't have a personality didn't effect her fighting skills at all, it was just something that worried the brother.

[Trepur]

Even deleating her abnormality, medaka is still medaka because she does not rely on her abnormality.

Deleting her personality means deleating medaka. Even having the end and coping all those skills, she cannot win because she was no longer medaka.

Like when medaka got book maker she became Kumagawa but because of her past and the burdens of both allies and ennemies, she won.

But having no memories, having no past, she lost.

A shoen protagonist fights for her friends, and past ennemies.

???

I wanna have some fun and put it in RPG terms. It deleveled her all of her experiences were gone so even though she has epic special abilities they haven't been unlocked yet. Her stats may be naturally high since abnormality is a starting thing. But she doesn't know how to use it 'cuz she's back to level one. The fact that she didn't have a personality didn't effect her fighting skills at all, it was just something that worried the brother.

This is kinda what I was saying...

[Amakawa Yuuto]

word users?

Also called "Language users" or "Style users", they appear long after the Flask Plan arc, during "the "Jet Black Wedding" arc. Not much of a spoiler, but if you're paranoid about the little details, don't read this before chapter 148:

Spoiler

"Normal" people (Neither Plus, Minus nor "Not Equal" abnormals), who use "language" as a weapon. The best example manipulates kanji - as in, the enemy has an ice armour, so she throws a rock at it. The kanji for "Rock" and "Ice" combine and form "shatter", shattering the ice armour.

Otherwise? Before the Jet Black Wedding arc, battles pretty much run by shonen-rules: Fighting spirit means everything. Which isn't entirely as ridiculous as you make it out to be - outside of standardised competitions, it's more important how far you're willing to go to disable your opponent. Normal people hold back before injuring someone. Which gives those than don't hold back - either because of "fighting spirit" or sociopathy - an edge. A well-trained fighter is still stronger, but a mediocre, competition-only fighter fighting against someone who doesn't care what he does to his opponent has a bad day ahead of him, despite technically having better training.

[Trepur]

Not looking at the spoiler as I have 52 chapters to go.

Before the Jet Black Wedding arc, battles pretty much run by shonen-rules: Fighting spirit means everything. Which isn't entirely as ridiculous as you make it out to be - outside of standardised competitions, it's more important how far you're willing to go to disable your opponent. Normal people hold back before injuring someone. Which gives those than don't hold back - either because of "fighting spirit" or sociopathy - an edge. A well-trained fighter is still stronger, but a mediocre, competition-only fighter fighting against someone who doesn't care what he does to his opponent has a bad day ahead of him, despite technically having better training.

I would disagree, training and discipline matter far more then fighting spirit. I get annoyed when anmies (this especially applies Tenga Toppa Guren Laggan) overly qualify the importance of fighting spirit.If I don't have the will to kill you or any motivation beyond just no dying, no matter your motivation, If I'm a black belt in a martial art and your only a white, all else being equal I will win.

Heart and Spirit matters and two people who are near equal in strength, it will come down to luck and heart, but i've I'm on paper twice as good as you, pretty much only a miracle would let you beat me. (remember all things being equal)

[SGRODmaster]

Nishio Ishin has a tendency to have his characters spew a bunch of nonsence when what they should really say is obvious, as with the ending of Nisemonogatari, and that is also the case here. Your idea about Medaka's ability and its relation to memory is a good one that the author should have used. That said, you shouldn't discount the effect of personality on a Skill. 2nd season anime spoiler (don't ask me to recall chapters please)

Spoiler

Oudo Miyakonojou basically has the ability to generate electricity, yet he uses it in a way that suits his personality, only occasionally showing sparks and only once using it as an attack that I recall.

Skills that Kumagawa has obtained have also been shown twice to be altered greatly by residing within him.