Vinland Saga

Looks like Gudrid is gonna get some Shota action. :V I always knew she liked em' young.

p.21 best waifu

Poor old man, that's why you don't trigger death flag like that.

 

Well, I for one, will be getting married after the war is over~ ;p

Poor old man, that's why you don't trigger death flag like that.

Before, it was Thorkell vs Thorfinn but now, it's Thorkell vs Garm. The only thing that hasn't changed in this manga is Thorkell and his love for battle. 

You're confusing values with experiences. His values right now is total non-violence, resulting from a backlash of a previous extreme violence. It doesn't matter if they're new, that's what he truly wants to believe right now.

And also, you don't need to experience the same thing to empathize. Just facing moral dilemmas should make you able to understand to a degree of what he's facing. 

Good for you for having had a morally straight life. But yeah, I agree. Not even many adults face really tough moral dilemmas, so I might've been a bit hard on the youngsters. But judging from a lot of comments, I do think many have a hard time understanding Thorfinn, while I think his actions and thinking are quite natural, based on his past.

I feel that I understand him. He doesn't want to keep perpetuating the same old violent cycle. Kind of like going vegetarian, or choosing to only eat ethically farmed meat; you're hungry, there are no vegetarian or ethical meat options on the menu, and the animals used in the meal have already suffered their whole life and been slaughtered no matter what you choose to do now. Yet, you'd rather skip a meal, causing harm to yourself, than perpetuate an industry you morally disagree with. Basically, his eye is on the big picture instead of the immediate dilemma. He wants to realise a change in the big picture, so the particularities of an immediate situation has a much lessened or totally absent impact on his choices.

Not that one can blame anyone for looking at things more... normally. Operating according to nice visions for the big picture is good for the whole world, but makes it more complicated to survive in one's day-to-day. A lot of people aren't in a state or position to be able to handle that, so this is a compromise they have to make and accept in order to live their life without falling into a harmful pit of self-hatred that doesn't help anyone either. It's thanks to Thorfinn being as strong as he is that he can hold himself to his standards without immediately getting killed, given his circumstances.

meh

I doubt Thorkell will die, but maybe he'll lose his other eye...

Forget about your death flags. Best indication of something happening is what it seems like the author wants for the story, and whether there would be more story if it did or didn't happen. I see in story comments people talking about flags all the time, but overlook such basic stuff.

 

 

Since the author wants some combat for our MC despite his peace loving ways, a antagonist who riles him to combat is needed, Garm is needed, as well as the battle loving tall guy. So their deaths (at least not both of them) are incredibly unlikely. Authors don't like killing off characters they need. Yes, theoretically they could just make a new Garm to replace him, but he's suppose to be special and again, authors don't like killing off characters they need, not even with replacing.

 

So I don't care how many death flags you imagine, it isn't happening.

Wow no respect at all for our lord and savior Thorkell, bringer of the must needed battle and carnage, with that said you are right.

So many death flag

Death flags? Those things dont pose a meaning to Thorkel. He has been in these scenes in prettymuch every chapter he has appeared in and his very concept is to just fight or brood because he cant fight.. now is just a scene where he fights. And laughs.

 

Even if he winds up dead and his head on a pole, he is most likely grinning and winking. Only way author can fuck up thorkels end is that some lucky toots assasin manages to somehow kill him.. that aint gonna happen. He is going down in blaze of glory.

I'm surprised how much I like Sig. He reminds me of Team Rocket in a way.

GOD DAMMIT!
I admit I loved the moment I found this manga on batoto some years back and had like 60+ chapters to read... fucking cliffhangers!

"Core values" haha. It seems that you haven't read the manga. Must not have the time being a True!Adult and all. These are fairly new values that he construed from a romanticized memory of his late father. His "core" values (or lack thereof) developed over his time as a mercenary, his late childhood and adolescence.
Thorfinn is trying to emulate his father (or what he remembers of his father) after losing everything an becoming a slave, these are not /his/ values at all. Even his dad knew it was impossible to be completely non-violent and drew a (broken) sword to protect his son. But in the end even that kind of pseudo-pacifism was unsuccessful and his family suffered because of it. I suspect realizing this, that his father wasn't a paragon or ubermensch, will become part of Thorfinn's ongoing character development.

Also there rarely comes a time where an adult needs to go against their core values to such an extent. I don't know who you are, or who you think you are, but the modern world doesn't challenge your morality much. If anything I had more existential decision making as a teenager. Ya know? Drugs, sex, liquor, violence, thievery. If you're an /adult/ and still experiencing those moral quandary, you became the wrong kind of adult.

You're confusing values with experiences. His values right now is total non-violence, resulting from a backlash of a previous extreme violence. It doesn't matter if they're new, that's what he truly wants to believe right now.

And also, you don't need to experience the same thing to empathize. Just facing moral dilemmas should make you able to understand to a degree of what he's facing. 

Good for you for having had a morally straight life. But yeah, I agree. Not even many adults face really tough moral dilemmas, so I might've been a bit hard on the youngsters. But judging from a lot of comments, I do think many have a hard time understanding Thorfinn, while I think his actions and thinking are quite natural, based on his past.

Forget about your death flags. Best indication of something happening is what it seems like the author wants for the story, and whether there would be more story if it did or didn't happen. I see in story comments people talking about flags all the time, but overlook such basic stuff.

 

 

Since the author wants some combat for our MC despite his peace loving ways, a antagonist who riles him to combat is needed, Garm is needed, as well as the battle loving tall guy. So their deaths (at least not both of them) are incredibly unlikely. Authors don't like killing off characters they need. Yes, theoretically they could just make a new Garm to replace him, but he's suppose to be special and again, authors don't like killing off characters they need, not even with replacing.

 

So I don't care how many death flags you imagine, it isn't happening.

Agreed, "Big battle loving tall guy" will probably spare Garm, after he proves his worth in combat.

Forget about your death flags. Best indication of something happening is what it seems like the author wants for the story, and whether there would be more story if it did or didn't happen. I see in story comments people talking about flags all the time, but overlook such basic stuff.

 

 

Since the author wants some combat for our MC despite his peace loving ways, a antagonist who riles him to combat is needed, Garm is needed, as well as the battle loving tall guy. So their deaths (at least not both of them) are incredibly unlikely. Authors don't like killing off characters they need. Yes, theoretically they could just make a new Garm to replace him, but he's suppose to be special and again, authors don't like killing off characters they need, not even with replacing.

 

So I don't care how many death flags you imagine, it isn't happening.

So many death flag

I really like Sig and his friends.

I remember I commented here ages ago, when the farmland saga wasn't over yet. I was annoyed at the people who didn't understand the point of this manga. Why would you want to read about a character that mindlessly kills everyone who gets in the way of his revenge? It's not constructive. It's a path to damnation. I don't want to read about that, and anyone who wants to, well... I'd question their tastes.

 

I guess I'll put the rest of my comment on spoiler tags, as it does contain spoilers and I don't want to bore anyone who doesn't willingly try to read what I think.

 

 

I guess that's it. I agree with Zhi Laohu... Vinland Saga's fanbase is kind of toxic. I don't understand why. This is such a wonderful manga.

 

Edit: Uhh... I just realized that Rex Nemorensis said pretty much what I wanted to say, but in a much better way. This is what I get from being impulsive. Oh well. 

Oh man those eyes...goose bumps!

Sigh, teenage kids and young adults in the comments, never having been forced to make tough decisions that go against their core values (if they even have any...).

That's how this comment section has always been. It's unfortunate, but Vinland Saga picked up a repulsive fanbase on Batoto.

So the whole chapter was about retarded Thorfinn who had to be lectured about obvious things... This is getting annoying. Good thing there are manga like Desert Punk where characters act pragmatically and logically and aren't wusses.

Goral, pls. I love that manga almost as much as you do. In fact, I agree that it's superior to this one. But that is an unfair comparison. The motives and circumstances of the characters are hardly alike, and so are the themes the authors are presenting. The stories, as a whole, can't be compared.

 

The point of this entire arc is going over your head. You're right in saying that Thorfinn is being unreasonable; the thing is, that's what he's supposed to realize. Bear with me for a while.

 

Sigh, teenage kids and young adults in the comments, never having been forced to make tough decisions that go against their core values (if they even have any...).

"Core values" haha. It seems that you haven't read the manga. Must not have the time being a True!Adult and all. These are fairly new values that he construed from a romanticized memory of his late father. His "core" values (or lack thereof) developed over his time as a mercenary, his late childhood and adolescence.
Thorfinn is trying to emulate his father (or what he remembers of his father) after losing everything an becoming a slave, these are not /his/ values at all. Even his dad knew it was impossible to be completely non-violent and drew a (broken) sword to protect his son. But in the end even that kind of pseudo-pacifism was unsuccessful and his family suffered because of it. I suspect realizing this, that his father wasn't a paragon or ubermensch, will become part of Thorfinn's ongoing character development.

Also there rarely comes a time where an adult needs to go against their core values to such an extent. I don't know who you are, or who you think you are, but the modern world doesn't challenge your morality much. If anything I had more existential decision making as a teenager. Ya know? Drugs, sex, liquor, violence, thievery. If you're an /adult/ and still experiencing those moral quandary, you became the wrong kind of adult.

Thorfinn evil eyes, the stuff is becoming realz~

Sigh, teenage kids and young adults in the comments, never having been forced to make tough decisions that go against their core values (if they even have any...).

I wonder why you are even bothering to read a manga when you manage to absolutely, completely and dazzingly manage to miss its whole point.

I see that you're missing the point - if Thorfinn needs to have obvious things explained then either he's retarded or insane already, he's going to absolute extremes, trying to act like a saint even after all atrocities he did. As for author's intention, the "love and peace" slogan is loud and clear, too loud and doesn't make any sense in this setting. Even once he'll reach Vinland it's more than certain that Indians might not take kindly their attempts to settle and what then? Thorfinn has been naive long enough, it's high time for him to grow up and either choose to be responsible and kind to others or choose to become a saint who will die trying to not kill any of his enemies, taking his friends with him. It's especially funny when you take into account that he hated his father for it and for a good reason, the whole hostage situation might as well ended up with Thors surrendering and Askeladd killing EVERYONE, leaving no witness behind. In fact, in real life that would most likely be the case.

 

I was buying Thorfinn's philosophy while he was just a farmer, since he could afford there to just hold his head low doing what his master told him to do. But ever since their escape it's more and more annoying and he should be dead already but isn't only because of plot armour.