Houseki no Kuni

And here I was going to comment how nobody ever thought of using Padparadscha's never ending hair to fill in the gaps.

I mean what better material than your own to replace those holes, right? Damn, Phos was right in calling Rutile a quack lol

Man, the Shiro episode totally got me. It had a beautiful meaning in the manga, and the anime just  made it even better.

If my attitude is the problem, it's probably because I myself have been upset at all these disclaimer scanlations that have infected scanlation since scanlation even existed, claiming inaccuracy as if that absolves them of all blame while they knowingly making inaccurate translations, that are just enough accurate enough to piece the general plot points together but miss out altogether on the finer nuances of storytelling. belkrax's Google Translate was probably the last straw for me.

 

In the end, yes, it boiled down to my subjective anger at belkrax not even trying to improve his methods of translating despite knowing they were bad. But this is part of a larger problem where disclaimer scanlations have become acceptable to the point of using a terrible resource like Google Translate. If readers like yourself are happy to piece together what's happening from inaccurate translations, that's ultimately your call and I won't argue against it.

 

But most of all, you should consider the fact that we wouldn't be arguing about accuracy and the rest if disclaimer scanlations didn't exist in the first place.

Hi, I'm the translator for the recent chapter.

This was not a terribly popular series before, and, if no one else stepped up to the plate, that was the fanbase's own issue. Belkrax is not a seasoned scanlator, so he did what he could with what he knew. It now comes off simply as inflammatory. Most of the fans are aware of the issues. And, from what you have said, it seems to be a larger issue that you shouldn't concentrate on Belkrax. There will always, always be bad translations, and they are not worth holding onto discontent for unless you are willing to do something to fix it.

I appreciate what you're saying, but you have made your point, so please let it go so that fans can enjoy this comment section instead of reading arguments.

If my attitude is the problem, it's probably because I myself have been upset at all these disclaimer scanlations that have infected scanlation since scanlation even existed, claiming inaccuracy as if that absolves them of all blame while they knowingly making inaccurate translations, that are just enough accurate enough to piece the general plot points together but miss out altogether on the finer nuances of storytelling. belkrax's Google Translate was probably the last straw for me.

In the end, yes, it boiled down to my subjective anger at belkrax not even trying to improve his methods of translating despite knowing they were bad. But this is part of a larger problem where disclaimer scanlations have become acceptable to the point of using a terrible resource like Google Translate. If readers like yourself are happy to piece together what's happening from inaccurate translations, that's ultimately your call and I won't argue against it.

But most of all, you should consider the fact that we wouldn't be arguing about accuracy and the rest if disclaimer scanlations didn't exist in the first place.

belkrax was still using Google Translate right up until the last chapter. There's a difference between improving your English and improving your knowledge of Japanese to improve your English translation. belkrax is not a translator yet calls himself one. Don't you think there's anything wrong with that, disclaimer aside?

 

Pick any English scanlation group out there and you can guarantee they wouldn't be turning to Google Translate for help, which is one of the most inaccurate sources out there for Japanese to begin with. They'd be doing their damn best to provide accurate translations.

 

And I have been in turns constructive but also impatient, because I honestly still cannot believe I am reading that accurate translations is a subjective viewpoint.

I guess I'm not done then. >_< I should've clarified. Yes, translation accuracy is objective. What is subjective is whether or not you're willing to read what's been translated despite the quality. Whether you think his methods were wrong or not is also subjective. He wasn't purposely being malicious with what he was doing. However, you apparently found it so appalling and deserving of rebuke. I'm not refuting your point about accuracy because translation accuracy IS important and it very well should be a top priority.

What I was upset about was your attitude towards belkrax. He made mistakes and owned up to it. I can respect that, and even if the accuracy of the translation is questionable, people who chose to read on despite the disclaimer could still piece together what's happening well enough until possibly another group wanted to try their hand at it or wait for the official releases. Is that honestly so terrible? To risk some comprehension for the sake of excitement of being able to read something one loves? If I am content enough with it in the meantime, I don't doubt there are others who feel the same. You can't fault us for that either because that's a choice we willingly made knowing what we were getting into. I'm glad there's a seemingly professional group working on this series now (I checked out their site and read the latest chapter scanlated by them), but I'm still thankful for belkrax for getting us this far.

I honestly hope you're as much of a stickler with quality in your own scanlation group as you have been here. There's always a need for good quality work, but people generally respond better to a carrot than a stick, so ease up a bit would you? Use admonishment and encouragement rather than scorn and derision. The latter inevitably leads to conflict instead of meaningful discussion.

Well of course that's a given, but he was as accurate as he could be and he did noticeably improve from what I read, so he did try on that front. You try and argue your viewpoint against every TL group out there. Why do you continue to sling insults, especially with your last statement? You're actually the disingenuous one with your "apologies". It's pointless to continue this discussion. This all could've been avoided with constructive advice in the first place instead of snide remarks. belkrax has long been done and I'm done too.

belkrax was still using Google Translate right up until the last chapter. There's a difference between improving your English and improving your knowledge of Japanese to improve your English translation. belkrax is not a translator yet calls himself one. Don't you think there's anything wrong with that, disclaimer aside?

Pick any English scanlation group out there and you can guarantee they wouldn't be turning to Google Translate for help, which is one of the most inaccurate sources out there for Japanese to begin with. They'd be doing their damn best to provide accurate translations.

And I have been in turns constructive but also impatient, because I honestly still cannot believe I am reading that accurate translations is a subjective viewpoint.

Well of course that's a given, but he was as accurate as he could be and he did noticeably improve from what I read, so he did try on that front. You try and argue your viewpoint against every TL group out there. Why do you continue to sling insults, especially with your last statement? You're actually the disingenuous one with your "apologies". It's pointless to continue this discussion. This all could've been avoided with constructive advice in the first place instead of snide remarks. belkrax has long been done and I'm done too.

A missed opportunity, for sure.

The whole point of translation is accuracy. The default of translation is accuracy. It wouldn't be translation if it was mistranslated, so an accurate translation is actually an objective viewpoint.

 

Anyway, belkrax. Duwang did it better ;P

The whole point of translation is accuracy. The default of translation is accuracy. It wouldn't be translation if it was mistranslated, so an accurate translation is actually an objective viewpoint.

Anyway, belkrax. Duwang did it better ;P

That's your subjective opinion and you're entitled to that, but it doesn't mean others have to. The degree of accuracy is not something you can measure either because you don't know Japanese. Like I said, the main points were gotten across and understood well enough and he's not falsely misleading people because he has disclaimers. You made your point already, so let it go.

Because you've been vilifying him as if he's such a bad person. He did what he could and that's that. Why can't you drop this matter?

Because he knew he was providing inaccurate translations and did nothing to try to improve the accuracy. I'm not discounting the effort that went into it because as a scanlator I know exactly how hard the process is. But translation is the backbone of any scanlation. If someone can't understand that, they really shouldn't be scanlating, especially if they know they're providing inaccurate translations.

Because you've been vilifying him as if he's such a bad person. He did what he could and that's that. Why can't you drop this matter?

Please cut the off-topic discussion before a mod wanders by and decides to lock the comments section. 

You make it seem as if he's morally obligated to do something in his spare time and that you've been personally offended by him not adhering to your standards in quality. Let it go man. The disclaimers are there and people can make decisions for themselves. People are far from perfect and I've seen plenty of "official" translations go horribly wrong. Not to mention translating languages is such a nuanced thing with varying interpretations and styles. Yes, if something is blatantly mistranslated there's no nuance to it, but I still got the gist of what was going on and everything that has been happening in the manga has supported that so far. Stop blowing things out of proportion. "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."

How does accurate translations =/= moral obligation?

You make it seem as if he's morally obligated to do something in his spare time and that you've been personally offended by him not adhering to your standards in quality. Let it go man. The disclaimers are there and people can make decisions for themselves. People are far from perfect and I've seen plenty of "official" translations go horribly wrong. Not to mention translating languages is such a nuanced thing with varying interpretations and styles. Yes, if something is blatantly mistranslated there's no nuance to it, but I still got the gist of what was going on and everything that has been happening in the manga has supported that so far. Stop blowing things out of proportion. "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks."

"If you dont stick to a personal set of beliefs that I stick to, you shouldnt do what you feel is right". And also you keep putting blame on me despite doing nothing at all. If we go with those set of beliefs, what about "If you really love a series, you should try to scanlate it". Oh what, you couldnt? And you dont think something like that could apply to me?
Also, no one was paying me or ever paid me to do it. I dont have any "responsability". Its just something I wanted to do, people who wanted to read it could read it, people who didnt had the warning for that.
 
Im alright because despite the inaccuracies I saw people talking about the series and enjoying it. That was it.

Yes, because accurate translations is a "belief".
 
Since you're all right with people enjoying your inaccurate translations, if you troll them and make up your own story it's all right as long they're enjoying it, is that it? belkrax, man, why wouldn't you even try to make your own translations better? Wouldn't it be even better if they enjoyed your accurate translations? Why can't you see that x.x

 

Edit: Also, please start off with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism next time yea? Then this whole argument could've been avoided. Maybe actually read some of the content in question, evaluate whatever you can, and then make meaningful suggestions. And if you yourself can't provide assistance, direct them to resources where they can get it.

I've checked out random pages from a couple chapters, some for belkrax's initial attempts and some more recent. They all rather look the same, sadly.
 
I have provided resources! ^^ 

There are so many resources at your fingertips where you can find translators who would be willing to pick up Houseki no Kouni. Mangaupdates. Mangahelpers. Batoto. Hell, even Mangafox recruitment forums. And there's plenty of translator tests out there from solid groups you could use to make sure anyone who applies actually knows Japanese.

Anyways, im done with this. You can reply whatever you want, there is no point in arguing with you. As another comparison, this is like me handling free cups of dirty water in the desert, you producing no water whatsoever and then saying I had a "responsability to give everyone good water". Really entitled and stupid.

Once you decide to scanlate something you like, it's your responsibility to, at the very least, find a translator or accurate translations. The first scanlation of any series is the one that's going to go out to major aggregates and the one that will stick with 99.9% of readers. Nobody will stop to read a disclaimer about inaccuracies because readers are usually fans and will always read what is available first, not wait for other scanlations. Because of this, especially for popular series, an accurate translation is your holy grail as a scanlator or scanlation group.

 

If you don't understand that... you really shouldn't scanlate in the first place. Why you're even all right with inaccuracies being read by thousands if not millions of people is beyond me.

"If you dont stick to a personal set of beliefs that I stick to, you shouldnt do what you feel is right". And also you keep putting blame on me despite doing nothing at all for the series yourself. If we go with those set of beliefs, what about "If you really love a series, you should try to scanlate it". Oh what, you couldnt? And you dont think something like that could apply to me?

Also, no one was paying me or ever paid me to do it. I dont have any "responsability". Its just something I wanted to do, people who wanted to read it could read it, people who didnt had the warning for that.

Im alright because despite the inaccuracies I saw people talking about the series and enjoying it. That was it.

Once you decide to scanlate something you like, it's your responsibility to, at the very least, find a translator or accurate translations. The first scanlation of any series is the one that's going to go out to major aggregates and the one that will stick with 99.9% of readers. Nobody will stop to read a disclaimer about inaccuracies because readers are usually fans and will always read what is available first, not wait for other scanlations. Because of this, especially for popular series, an accurate translation is your holy grail as a scanlator or scanlation group.

If you don't understand that... you really shouldn't scanlate in the first place. Why you're even all right with inaccuracies being read by thousands if not millions of people is beyond me.

Woah. Well. Now my criticism turns into something else. Rather than improving your Japanese and/or finding a better translator... you preferred to continue serving arsenic water to yourself and readers. You knew they were wrong, and did nothing to improve their accuracy? Classy.

 

I never drank the arsenic. I stopped reading the moment your disclaimer showed up. As to me not providing better content... I'm providing my own content for my own group as best I can. Why should my criticism of your scanlation mean I should help you clean up a series you've knowingly shat on for so long?

Dude, really? You guys should drop the discussion now. That arsenic water analogy was a poor choice to use, as if he actually harmed people. You're not exactly being classy either you know. Both sides have valid points and it's really up to the readers themselves to decide. Can we move the hell on now?

Edit: Also, please start off with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism next time yea? Then this whole argument could've been avoided. You say you were helping inform the readers because they had a right to know, but the disclaimers were there all along. Maybe actually read some of the content in question, evaluate whatever you can, and then make meaningful suggestions. And if you yourself can't provide assistance, direct them to resources where they can get it. Whether or not they choose to accept is another matter, but at least you tried and you weren't making an ass of yourself. Stop imposing your subjective standards on everyone else.

Woah. Well. Now my criticism turns into something else. Rather than improving your Japanese and/or finding a better translator... you preferred to continue serving arsenic water to yourself and readers. You knew they were wrong, and did nothing to improve their accuracy? Classy.

 

I never drank the arsenic. I stopped reading the moment your disclaimer showed up. As to me not providing better content... I'm providing my own content for my own group as best I can. Why should my criticism of your scanlation mean I should help you clean up a series you've knowingly shat on for so long?

Woah. Well. Rather than stepping up and translating the series... You prefered to let everyone drink arsenic water. You knew you were wrong, and did nothing to improve their accuracy? Classy.

See, same shit. Its just dumb. Lets let it go, you are obviously a prick and thats all. And your last question proves you still dont understand its not about criticism, its about putting fault on me when you did nothing either, both with reasons of course, but then again. Its just stupid.

There is nothing malicious on saying my translations are bad, thats what im telling you. Its the attitude about it. I dont get why that is so difficult to understand. Or rather I feel like you understand it but feel bad that you were called out on it and now want to argue for arguing.

You do realize there were warning pages made by belkrax that were put in a bunch of chapters, that explicitly stated the quality will be iffy. People knew what to expect. I don't know what your end game was, but congrats on hurting his feelings. Scanlating/Subbing/etc. has always been a thankless job that fans do for free, so honestly they're not beholden to any certain standard that we arbitrarily impose on them. The majority do what they do out of love for the series and wanting to share them with others. belkrax tried his best because no one else stepped up and he made due with what he had. It certainly wasn't right to so brazenly and maliciously call him out for it. Although a group has stepped up for now KoolKidsK (KKK...is that intentional?), who knows how long it will last.

 

And to belkrax, what do you plan to do now? Will you continue as you have or maybe combine your efforts and reach out to the group to see if there's anything you can help with?

You have a point about imposing arbitrary standards, but when you've been in the scene for a few years like belkrax and I, you learn there are certain arbitrary standards within the scanlation community. Yes, the whole point of scanlation is to have avid fans like belkrax translate when no one else is willing to step up to the plate, but with that decision comes certain responsibilities that should and must be arbitrary for all. An accurate translation is the most important part. Without it, your scanlation is crap. Which is also what you can call my own scanlations when I first started out.

belkrax, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but if it's malicious to point out that your scanlations are also crap... sue me. It's the truth.

 

And to belkrax, what do you plan to do now? Will you continue as you have or maybe combine your efforts and reach out to the group to see if there's anything you can help with?

Well now ill relax and read the better translations lmao. Just asked the group and they already have everything, so im stepping down. Of course Im still in charge of the spanish translations, they just told me they are ok with me using theirs for that.