Kuzu no Honkai

The synopsis sounds so shoujo/josei. Bleh.

First, if we're going to assume we can never know anything about anyone else's thought processes, then we're going to have to throw out most human interaction and almost all literature, and certainly all manga that have thought bubbles--like this one.  If it can show a character's thoughts, I can say what I think about the portrayal.  And I don't buy it.
Second, every time I see a syrupy heroine or something like that, people are tripping over themselves to say how unrealistic it is.  And I hardly ever see this kind of comeback to such claims even though there are plenty of real syrupy people.

Spoiler

I know lots of people with sunny personalities who are generally cheerful, chipper, naive, true-blue or what have you.  Really, they're quite common.  And I know less-cheerful people who are nonetheless solid, who would never betray a friend and who I know would have my back if I needed it.  And again, I'm always seeing denunciations of, well, any character that isn't thoroughly screwed up, as unrealistic.  But in real life such people aren't a case of "Well, you might never normally meet one but they do exist somewhere", they're quite common.  So why the double standard, where depicting quite common character types is "unrealistic" but depicting vanishingly rare ones, and just as a minor convenient plot device at that, is "realistic"?
 
The only thing I've been able to come up with is a general bias where people just equate dark with real.
 
As to this particular character--yeah, I've met people with narcissistic personality disorder.  They're annoying.  And I've met real jerks and selfish bastards and so on.  But nearly all of them, as near as I can figure out, rearrange reality in their heads so that they can self-justify what they do.  In their heads, they skew reality so they can do what they want while still somehow being the good guy.  If they're going to break some couple up because they're jealous or they just like doing it, they tell themselves the girl is a bitch and they're doing the world a service by taking her down a notch, or they tell themselves they're just sooo passionate about the guy they can't help themselves, or both, or something.  I knew a girl quite well once who was kind of that sort, and I would listen to her complaining about situations that I'd been there for, and I was struck by the way that the events as she described them started to diverge from the events as I remembered seeing them, with her looking better and whoever she didn't like looking worse.  The longer since the event, the more the shift.  And it's not like she was lying to me--I was there.  She really believed herself.  We all do it a bit, but that sort don't even try not to--to the contrary, they depend on that re-editing process to keep on believing they're good people while gratifying themselves by behaving like bad ones.  What they don't do is rub their hands together like Snidely Whiplash and say "Muahaha!  I feel like breaking those people up because I am a nasty person and that's how I get my jollies!"--not even if they are a nasty person and that is how they get their jollies.  So yeah, I think it's unrealistic.

I can pretty much agree with most stuff you said. And it's totally free to think of it as unrealistic (obviously). When I talk about realistic I mean it's quite possible to think that such a person exist somewhere on this world (I'd never call syrupy heroines unrealistic). Even if it's an extreme minority I still think it's possible they exist. And let's face it, most manga focus on this rare deviants that many will most likely never encounter in real life.

So yeah let me rephrase that one last sentence from before: You can only know a fraction of what a person is thinking never all of it. Even in Mangas with thought bubbles you can only find out so much about a person as the Mangaka wants to let you know till know. Quite often he adds little bits later on (Back to my wish of wanting more from Akane's point of view).

I am confused can someone message me how this complicated love web is happening I have gotten lost trying to understand this.  I want to read more but my head is going in circles trying to understand what is going on with this web.

The MCs are together because they're crushes are together with each other (and they weren't able to tell them their feeling because... manga), so they use each other as replacements while fantasizing about their crushes, also the girl he's in love with is a bitch.

I am confused can someone message me how this complicated love web is happening I have gotten lost trying to understand this.  I want to read more but my head is going in circles trying to understand what is going on with this web.

*reads summary*

Oh this seems interesting

*reads comments*

...Ok then, time to turn around and head out.  Unless someone can convince me to stay.

Nope...depending on your preferences, it might be a good time to leave...not really sure why I'M still here even..

Well, whoever said many chapters (and comments) ago that the male teacher was pretty much the only character that deserved pity and consideration, was right; this chapter made feel real bad for the guy, those scenes of him and his mother really hit me like a kick to the liver. While reading the comments section I also found some comments that I think are a pretty good for the discussion of this story: 

• "but this is getting into malignant narcissist territory" by madelinelime, well, I don't know if the female teacher character is realistic or not but in the story she is not just a narcissist in the coloquial sense of having a big ego, she is pathologically narcissistic, she is pretty much a sociopath. I think that you are quite right on that.  

• "a general bias where people just equate dark with real" by Purple Library Guy, I really liked this sentence not just for discussing this manga but many others as well, that really seems to be a common attitude and I partly agree with your statement that she seems a little unrealistic because pretty much nothing good or positive about her has been showed so far, so she is pretty much a cumulus of concentrated evil while it has been proved that even some of the worst scums of humanity have some little little redeemable qualities, some of these people (that I will not refer by name because it could appear that I am trying to excuse them or reduce their faults, something that I am not trying to do) were able to show some human warmth.

 

First, if we're going to assume we can never know anything about anyone else's thought processes, then we're going to have to throw out most human interaction and almost all literature, and certainly all manga that have thought bubbles--like this one.  If it can show a character's thoughts, I can say what I think about the portrayal.  And I don't buy it.

Second, every time I see a syrupy heroine or something like that, people are tripping over themselves to say how unrealistic it is.  And I hardly ever see this kind of comeback to such claims even though there are plenty of real syrupy people.

Spoiler

I know lots of people with sunny personalities who are generally cheerful, chipper, naive, true-blue or what have you.  Really, they're quite common.  And I know less-cheerful people who are nonetheless solid, who would never betray a friend and who I know would have my back if I needed it.  And again, I'm always seeing denunciations of, well, any character that isn't thoroughly screwed up, as unrealistic.  But in real life such people aren't a case of "Well, you might never normally meet one but they do exist somewhere", they're quite common.  So why the double standard, where depicting quite common character types is "unrealistic" but depicting vanishingly rare ones, and just as a minor convenient plot device at that, is "realistic"?

 

The only thing I've been able to come up with is a general bias where people just equate dark with real.

 

As to this particular character--yeah, I've met people with narcissistic personality disorder.  They're annoying.  And I've met real jerks and selfish bastards and so on.  But nearly all of them, as near as I can figure out, rearrange reality in their heads so that they can self-justify what they do.  In their heads, they skew reality so they can do what they want while still somehow being the good guy.  If they're going to break some couple up because they're jealous or they just like doing it, they tell themselves the girl is a bitch and they're doing the world a service by taking her down a notch, or they tell themselves they're just sooo passionate about the guy they can't help themselves, or both, or something.  I knew a girl quite well once who was kind of that sort, and I would listen to her complaining about situations that I'd been there for, and I was struck by the way that the events as she described them started to diverge from the events as I remembered seeing them, with her looking better and whoever she didn't like looking worse.  The longer since the event, the more the shift.  And it's not like she was lying to me--I was there.  She really believed herself.  We all do it a bit, but that sort don't even try not to--to the contrary, they depend on that re-editing process to keep on believing they're good people while gratifying themselves by behaving like bad ones.  What they don't do is rub their hands together like Snidely Whiplash and say "Muahaha!  I feel like breaking those people up because I am a nasty person and that's how I get my jollies!"--not even if they are a nasty person and that is how they get their jollies.  So yeah, I think it's unrealistic.

 

I think we're discussing different levels of self-awareness. It's not that that the teacher thinks she's evil, but rather that she recognizes that the way she gets off is one which causes harm to others. She still wants to get off though, so she won't stop hurting others. She might be a high functioning sociopath, or she's just a weak willed person who is self-aware of their own motivations. I agree with you that she isn't necessarily more realistic than a super cheerful character.

I think a lot of the times when people complain about lack of realism in a cheery thing, it's because the cheeriness doesn't stop at the characters but infects the world around them. Even cheery people live in worlds that aren't particularly cheery. Or to put it another way, most things that are "dark" at least acknowledge the good times and the happy moments, even if they come few and far between, or they specify that the people being focused on are not average and so their adventures are drearier than the average person's. The ones that don't (Akame ga Kill) seem just as unrealistic as the happiest of shonens.

Super dark things aren't any more realistic than super happy things, but as a general trend I'd say I find darker things more realistic than happier things. That might be more of a reflection of darker things being aimed at an older audience, rather than a by product of grit of the show. It's a confusion of cause and effect. The effect is "realism" and most people think the cause is the grittiness, when it's really the target audience.

There are alot of different kind of humans on this world so saying it is unrealistic is too much.  Sexual arousal from despair and agony is something you won't witness in everyday life but it does exist.  also you never know how a person thinks unless you are the person itself.

First, if we're going to assume we can never know anything about anyone else's thought processes, then we're going to have to throw out most human interaction and almost all literature, and certainly all manga that have thought bubbles--like this one.  If it can show a character's thoughts, I can say what I think about the portrayal.  And I don't buy it.

Second, every time I see a syrupy heroine or something like that, people are tripping over themselves to say how unrealistic it is.  And I hardly ever see this kind of comeback to such claims even though there are plenty of real syrupy people.

I read ahead in the RAWS but the story moves forward so damn slowly. If people are hoping for faster development don't count on it.

Narcissistic personality disorder is really quite scary, other people mean nothing so much as they can be used to showcase yourself. I'd be glad you've never met any, I have and by gods was it ever unpleasant. As for what they actually think, we have absolutely no idea, beyond the best guess of some psychology genius. No one really knows what's going on in someone elses head beyond the physical and even then some of it's guesswork. 

Having known several, including family members, I can tell you that they 100% rewrite situations in their head to justify their terrible actions. They can do no wrong, think everyone owes them, and that they don't owe anyone else anything... but this is getting into malignant narcissist territory and I'm not sure how much it overlaps.

I dunno.  Who is this chick, the wicked stepmother from Snow White?  

I appreciate darkness sometimes, but it annoys me that writers going "dark" can get away with unrealism that they'd totally be called for if it was that unrealistic in a happy way.  I've never met a girl like that sensei, do they exist at all short of serial murderer territory?  (I've met women who probably act kind of like that sensei, but they don't think like that sensei)

It's she just an exaggerated idea of the girls who like popular guys? I mean why do some girls like a guy the more other girls like the same guy (ex. famous guys)? Isn't it based on the idea that they imagine themselves with the guy and other girls being jealous of them?

everyone who reads this are masochists 

Sorry I'm a Sadist. Seeing other people suffer through this excites me currently the most. (Also need more from Akane's PoV)

*reads summary*

Oh this seems interesting

*reads comments*

...Ok then, time to turn around and head out.  Unless someone can convince me to stay.

Damn, that NTR .

I sense blood coming out soon. oh School Days... oh.. 

everyone who reads this are masochists 

One thing came to my mind when I read this chapter originally in the Tank:
 

Spoiler

 
I think it suits perfectly and wraps up everything neatly...

well, interesting chapter just for her thoughts.

I dunno.  Who is this chick, the wicked stepmother from Snow White?  

I appreciate darkness sometimes, but it annoys me that writers going "dark" can get away with unrealism that they'd totally be called for if it was that unrealistic in a happy way.  I've never met a girl like that sensei, do they exist at all short of serial murderer territory?  (I've met women who probably act kind of like that sensei, but they don't think like that sensei)

Narcissistic personality disorder is really quite scary, other people mean nothing so much as they can be used to showcase yourself. I'd be glad you've never met any, I have and by gods was it ever unpleasant. As for what they actually think, we have absolutely no idea, beyond the best guess of some psychology genius. No one really knows what's going on in someone elses head beyond the physical and even then some of it's guesswork. 

I dunno.  Who is this chick, the wicked stepmother from Snow White?  

I appreciate darkness sometimes, but it annoys me that writers going "dark" can get away with unrealism that they'd totally be called for if it was that unrealistic in a happy way.  I've never met a girl like that sensei, do they exist at all short of serial murderer territory?  (I've met women who probably act kind of like that sensei, but they don't think like that sensei)

There are alot of different kind of humans on this world so saying it is unrealistic is too much.  Sexual arousal from despair and agony is something you won't witness in everyday life but it does exist.  also you never know how a person thinks unless you are the person itself.

I dunno.  Who is this chick, the wicked stepmother from Snow White?  
I appreciate darkness sometimes, but it annoys me that writers going "dark" can get away with unrealism that they'd totally be called for if it was that unrealistic in a happy way.  I've never met a girl like that sensei, do they exist at all short of serial murderer territory?  (I've met women who probably act kind of like that sensei, but they don't think like that sensei)

Major "S" alert. This the kind you shoot first and ask questions later in the interest of protecting the public

I dunno.  Who is this chick, the wicked stepmother from Snow White?  

I appreciate darkness sometimes, but it annoys me that writers going "dark" can get away with unrealism that they'd totally be called for if it was that unrealistic in a happy way.  I've never met a girl like that sensei, do they exist at all short of serial murderer territory?  (I've met women who probably act kind of like that sensei, but they don't think like that sensei)

So is this one going nice boat ending or what?