Ashita Mata, Kono Sekai De

And by justifying garbage, you're drowning out works that are actually good.

 

Its been 10 chapters already, if we're still on the "cover" how long are we supposed to wait for the story to actually start?

... 11 chapters in.  One of those chapters is four pages.  Another is two pages.  So 51 total pages.  Meaning about a chapter and a half of a first chapter in most conventional manga.  We're still very much in an acceptable setup stage.   

I'm not so sure that this webcomic is about "action" per se so much as it's about character and relationships.  It's by no means a perfect.  I wouldn't fault you for voting it less than a "five" on here.  By no means.  But there are some interesting things going on here.  And it's fun.  =]

Sometimes the best adventures are the most cliche.

 

You have to remember, it's not the beginning or end that makes up the journey, but the adventure itself: the place where you are going. By judging a webcomic like this without actually seeing any of the substance, you're essentially smothering a baby, if that makes any sense. You gotta wait for the adventure, because that's what will separate it from the rest of the pack.

 

This is for all the others idiots in the comment section as well. Judging a book by it's cover ain't cool, and it makes you look idiotic when the adventure is good. All I'm saying is wait for the rest, would you?

And by justifying garbage, you're drowning out works that are actually good.

Its been 10 chapters already, if we're still on the "cover" how long are we supposed to wait for the story to actually start?

This is... pretty awful.

 

Art aside; the writing, the pacing, the characters, its all pretty terrible. Its obviously trying to build a massive world setting for an ultimately 'epic' world saving adventure but it comes across as incredibly heavy handed. (A blank book? A voice in his head?? 'The Starting City"??? How blatantly cliche can you get?!?)

Sometimes the best adventures are the most cliche.

You have to remember, it's not the beginning or end that makes up the journey, but the adventure itself: the place where you are going. By judging a webcomic like this without actually seeing any of the substance, you're essentially smothering a baby, if that makes any sense. You gotta wait for the adventure, because that's what will separate it from the rest of the pack.

This is for all the others idiots in the comment section as well. Judging a book by it's cover ain't cool, and it makes you look idiotic when the adventure is good. All I'm saying is wait for the rest, would you?

don't hope too high for webcomic

they usually or may start with simple, plain, or cliche plot

maybe it'll better, maybe worse

since this is free, self-publishing, no editor to guide/critic and some (most?) webcomic artis do it for fun

I personally found this story light and refreshing (although there's hints it's not that serene, especially around

thank you for the works!

This is... pretty awful.

Art aside; the writing, the pacing, the characters, its all pretty terrible. Its obviously trying to build a massive world setting for an ultimately 'epic' world saving adventure but it comes across as incredibly heavy handed. (A blank book? A voice in his head?? 'The Starting City"??? How blatantly cliche can you get?!?)

How can he remember his own age when he didn't remember his own name mmm...~?

the rabbit is 23?

the rabbit is 23?

Looks interesting.

It's not about monsters per se -- it's just one of the many things this manga wants to introduce, and that's fine. However, it's introducing most of them through dialogue, making the chapters feel satured with disguised infodumps. To exaggerate slightly, the cast is acting as though they are tour guides. Some of that exposition could have easily been moved from dialogue to scene; replacing the wolf with a monster was just an example. (As the wolf specifically feels unimportant to the plot and overarching world-building.)

There is a lot of info.  Whether necessary and effective (my view) or not, there's a lot.

I don't think the brevity of the chapters necessarily help here either.  It's fair to make the argument that the author doesn't necessarily put enough consideration into conceiving how a reader will react to the contents of a discrete chapter.

It's not about monsters per se -- they are just one of the many things this manga wants to introduce, and that's fine. However, it is introducing most of its concepts through dialogue, making the chapters feel satured with conversational infodumps. To exaggerate slightly, the cast is acting as though they are tour guides. Some of that exposition could have easily been moved from dialogue to scene; replacing the wolf with a monster was just an example. (As the wolf specifically feels unimportant to the plot and overarching world-building.)

I think you missed my point. Again, from the author's perspective: monsters exist in my world. What would be the best way to show this to the readers?

 

Option A: Have a character encounter a monster.

Option B: Have a character tell another character, who is conveniently unaware that monsters exist, that monsters exist.

 

In this case, the author went for option B, necessitating more infodumping in conversation, and had the protagonist encounter a wolf instead, a mundane creature that does nothing for world-building. Do you see the missed opportunity?

No, I don't get your point at all given the structure of the narrative. 

Well, why would Beetlejuice say he hates sand worms ~30 minutes into the movie devoid of any further context?

 

Why would Princess Leia Organa be talking about the Emperor dissolving the Senate ~25 minutes into A New Hope with no context and no further context? 

 

The answer that question and the two I raised seem to be the same.

I think you missed my point. Again, from the author's perspective: monsters exist in my world. What would be the best way to show this to the readers?

Option A: Have a character encounter a monster.

Option B: Have a character tell another character, who is conveniently unaware that monsters exist, that monsters exist.

In this case, the author went for option B, necessitating more infodumping in conversation, and had the protagonist encounter a wolf instead, a mundane creature that does nothing for world-building. Do you see the missed opportunity?

Why show us a wolf, and not a monster?

Well, why would Beetlejuice say he hates sand worms ~30 minutes into the movie devoid of any further context?

Why would Princess Leia Organa be talking about the Emperor dissolving the Senate ~25 minutes into A New Hope with no context and no further context? 

The answer that question and the two I raised seem to be the same.

Anyway, after all this fuss I'd be interested to hear what sort of amnesiac-burdened tales Seikah does find objectionable.

Rather than list specific stories, I need to correct you: my issue with amnesia is the device, not the stories amnesia is used in.
 

In summary, this is my issue: amnesia as an enabler of exposition is lazy and unoriginal. Neither of these things are irredeemable sins; sometimes the reader will even overlook them in light of the greater picture. However, just because we’re willing to, as you say, put such a device aside, doesn’t mean it isn’t still there. Enjoyment does not invalidate points of critique. Wouldn’t the story be better if the author had found a more imaginative, a more original, a more believable way to introduce their world to the reader? Personally, I have no doubt that it would.

Case in point, the latest chapters primarily consist of the main cast feeding Shiro information about the city, their work, the legendary heroes, the history of the forest, and the monsters therein. (History is one thing, but if monsters exist in the forest, why would the author convey that information in conversation? Why show us a wolf, and not a monster?)

there is a mistake in ch. 6 the first page is repeated and the second page is missing

Thanks for catching this.  >.>

there is a mistake in ch. 6 the first page is repeated and the second page is missing

To think my idle pedantry would sow the seeds for such erudite conversation.

I have nothing so clever to say as those who have spoken after and before me, but...

So far interesting, but the comment section is a lot more interesting mmm...

As far as for convenience sake, the amnesia plot conceal needed things from reader like why's he a rabbit while all others (so far) are humans and they seems normal with it, why the book is blank (it's blank right?), why he's there in the middle of the jungle, what's his purpose and background mmm...

Because I read manga most of the time nowadays, this kind of story is more than acceptable to follow since I read many with worse boring stuff than this mmm...

I'm not sure I'll be following this, seems a little outside the sort of manga-things I'm interested in.  But I'm glad I checked it out if only to read through the fascinating conversation between Seikah and vhrix.

Incidentally, on vhrix's thing about time travel--well, that's often true but as someone who can enjoy classic Golden Age hard SF, I don't think there's always anything wrong with a story being about an idea rather than about characterization.  Fooling around with time travel just for the sake of exploring the weirdness of time travel can be fun and interesting enough in and of itself to make a memorable story.

And then of course there's the towering counterexample of Connie WIllis, whose time travel books generally have five times as much characterization, not to mention feel for setting, as most other people writing on any subject.  Indeed, the classic Connie Willis device is precisely the spectacle of futurisic science and technology signally failing to make a dent in our essential humanity.  "To Say Nothing of the Dog", "Blackout" and "All Clear" are massive novelistic achievements in which time travel, far from displacing focus on characters, actually helps to illuminate them.  Well, in literature there's almost always an exception to everything, eh?

i bet it's blank

That dinner scene is hillarious!

Run, Shiro! Run!

@ Seikah. This is an unexpectedly productive and interesting conversation. Hats off to you, my friend!

 
Likewise!

@ Seikah.  This is an unexpectedly productive and interesting conversation.  Hats off to you, my friend!

On a personal note, I'd be glad to continue this conversation over direct message and perhaps discuss fantasy more widely.  I have a feeling that many of our interests and concerns overlap quite a bit.