Tobaku Datenroku Kaiji: One Poker Hen

If Kaiji decides to use his pals as playing chips, wouldn't Kazuya technically be able to do the same thing with the black suits? That'd make this match eternal, I mean, blacksuits are like, infinite, he's never gonna run out of those.

Wow, so much for Kaiji's intuition that those guys are good guys, this guy seems very familiar with murder/rapes.

That's not quite it, Kaiji sees that this guy will overall act consistently if it was agreed. He's trying to prove all humans are scum but to have meaning it proof must reasonably hold water for him.

So plus or minus the odd tweak to force things in the direction he wants to test, as Kaiji says he will 'act fair'.

That's very different from him being a good guy.

Great stuff!

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but as soon as Kazuya started to explain the stuff about human lives, I immediately thought that Kaiji's two friends' lives are going to end up as playing chips at some point.

I'm sure we'll find out soon, yet the rules haven't been explained fully. Minimum bets are 200m, but are they forced bets (blinds/antes) or not? And for only one or both players? Also I'm gonna assume they take turns to act first. In a gamble like this, especially with such a high wager, whoever acts last in the first hand has a significant advantage.

 

I also wonder how exactly the hi/lo reader works. I assume the opponent doesn't know which card of the two you play, but is it legal to swap your retained card's slot with the 'fresh' slot? 

 

It is an interesting and simple gamble, as FKMT's best games usually are.

here is the problem : if one got two down cards and the other got two up cards , the one who got up cards would never play an ace unless he got two aces which is very likely to happen considering that you keep the card you don't play

 
Don't forget the other player will have to hold a 2 card and another low card and guess when the other will release the ace
all the while losing for a single come back.  When you are short of lives, you are at the disadvantage instead.
 
in the next three sequence, which one will I throw an Ace and you have two low cards for all three rounds
You currently have three lives.



If you guess correctly, you lose two out of three.
If not, you lose three out of three and game over.

Wow, so much for Kaiji's intuition that those guys are good guys, this guy seems very familiar with murder/rapes.

Just my two cents about Kazuya's explanations here :

 

Spoiler

Unless I misunderstood something, two low cards vs one or two high cards doesn't necessarily means you're done.

 

If one of the low cards happens to be a 2, and one of the high cards happens to be an ace, then you'd be in a position to win. The chances of this happening are slim, but it is a loophole, so I'm sure it'll be important at some point.

 

I'm also sure that Kazuya is aware of this, hence he was really pushing the concept of how totally screwed you are if you've got two low cards, just to confuse Kaiji.

 

Once Kaiji realize that little fact, Kazuya will just say "hey, I did tell you about that rule, you just had to think more".

here is the problem : if one got two down cards and the other got two up cards , the one who got up cards would never play an ace unless he got two aces which is very likely to happen considering that you keep the card you don't play

Not good.  Kaiji has his gambler's high face and that usually means trouble for him.  Like getting his fingers cut or losing his left over money after defeating the pachinko machine.  I can see it now,  Kaiji will end up losing his two human tokens and then he will resort to using the lives of his two friends and probable one or two of them will end up dying.  

Kazuya will never be the top by beating Kaiji. He needs to do this

So, I think this counts as the game with the biggest amount of money on the line: a whole total of 2.400.000.000 yen (a bit more than 19 million USD). That's quite a lot.

 

Also, a human's life is worth 200 million yen, huh. Another life lesson from Kazuya.

Damn, that's alot

In 3rd world country I doubt human life even worth 100k$

So, I think this counts as the game with the biggest amount of money on the line: a whole total of 2.400.000.000 yen (a bit more than 19 million USD). That's quite a lot.

 

Also, a human's life is worth 200 million yen, huh. Another life lesson from Kazuya.

So heavy and full of treacherous promise already...

After reading the links I  see now that my memory is wrong.  The cheering did happen before Kazuma started the interviews.

 

That said before Kazuma heard about the cheering he was not planning on cheating but just losing http://vatoto.com/reader#6e9da58b2c2f346b_18. It was not after he learned about the cheering that he decided to cheat http://vatoto.com/reader#b34878aed6a5efec_9.  Kazuma even explains the effect that the cheering was having on the salvation game experiment http://vatoto.com/reader#b34878aed6a5efec_12 

http://vatoto.com/reader#b34878aed6a5efec_14.

 

 Locking the belt would cause the three stooges to finally start thinking for themselves instead of constantly having that cheer directing them.

 

That said after a little rereading I now see that Kazuma is not completely fair.  Locking the chair for me is justified since the three stooges already knew the rules but one of them still decided to "cheer" (create an agreement).  But later in the game Kazuma also broke the no communication rule even though no one was cheating http://vatoto.com/reader#e508862a105190f6_12.  So yea, Kazuma is not completely fair but I do belief that he is fair enough that he wont just say something along the lines of "you won but I don't  care. I am still keeping my money and now you are going to die".

 

Edit: I do not know why some links are working the way that they should (blue ones that work with a click). Why some are not (black ones that require a copy and paste.)

No the game already started at chapter 16.  After a few rounds the interview took place in chapter22.  Also cheering is communication.  By cheering all three were able to communicate that they were on the same side.  Also Kazuya would not deliberately cheat to make the game more fun for himself as we saw him give up and not try anything when he taught that the three stoggies were really a team http://vatoto.com/reader#45e1be282d9a4c4b_4 

Absolutely no. They are cheering "16 rounds until the end".

16 Rounds is the whole duration of the game. The flashback is happening just before this scene in chapter 14 (notice the 16 turn board to refresh your memory) http://vatoto.com/reader#b49caa58a21a1bbd_13

 

The stooges were not able to communicate until Kazuya gave them the ability to do so, and broke no rule at all during the whole game.

In fact they were not even able to remove the helmets until the end of the game, and had to keep them on even during the interviews http://vatoto.com/reader#bb1f17f66a0eed54_21

The man in black specifically talked about a scene that happened before they weared the helmets for the first time.  Kazuya knows this, but he hates their "herbivorous" mentality.

And then cheated because he was disliking the current results.

 

He CLAIMS that he wouldn't cheat, but that's not true: and you have a clear proof that he can be a liar since he lied willingly to Kaiji about the whole incident, claiming it was a malfunction and an accident, to keep the game fair in his eyes http://vatoto.com/reader#26f2aa1b257f9604_18

No rule was broken. They talked one last time _before_ wearing the helmets and starting the game.

Mind you it wasn't even them planning anything but just a "let's win this" cheer.

 

The one who broke his own rules was Kazuya, becouse he started disliking the outcome.

 

EDIT: Mind you I'm not claiming that Kazuya did cheat with the intent to win at a game of chance, but he very well did until the state of the game were of his liking. If he has no fun from is little game he is going to fix it until he is satisfied. No matter if the others were playing fair up to that point.

No the game already started at chapter 16.  After a few rounds the interview took place in chapter22.  Also cheering is communication.  By cheering all three were able to communicate that they were on the same side.  Also Kazuya would not deliberately cheat to make the game more fun for himself as we saw him give up and not try anything when he taught that the three stoggies were really a team http://vatoto.com/reader#45e1be282d9a4c4b_4 

 

Actually he did that in order to bring balance back to the game since one of the three stooges decided to break the no communication rule. 

 

http://vatoto.com/reader#b34878aed6a5efec_5

 

No rule was broken. They talked one last time _before_ wearing the helmets and starting the game.

Mind you it wasn't even them planning anything but just a "let's win this" cheer.

 

The one who broke his own rules was Kazuya, becouse he started disliking the outcome.

 

EDIT: Mind you I'm not claiming that Kazuya did cheat with the intent to win at a game of chance, but he very well did until the state of the game were of his liking. If he has no fun from is little game he is going to fix it until he is satisfied. No matter if the others were playing fair up to that point.

If you have two low cards, chances are I will never use an Ace unless both cards are ace.

Just my two cents about Kazuya's explanations here :

 

http://vatoto.com/reader#26f2aa1b257f9604_6

 

Maybe it is not cheating for him, but it is very well cheating for me 

 

 

Actually he did that in order to bring balance back to the game since one of the three stooges decided to break the no communication rule. 

 

http://vatoto.com/reader#b34878aed6a5efec_5

I mean, he really is. He MAY use psychological tricks every now and then, but he'd never do something like what Tonegawa did during the E-card game, nothing that would count as "cheating", because otherwise his entire set of beliefs would be invalid.

http://vatoto.com/reader#26f2aa1b257f9604_6

 

Maybe it is not cheating for him, but it is very well cheating for me 

Ahhh yes! A game with simple rules. I was worried I was going to have try and learn a bunch of crazy terms and rules like for all the mahjong arcs.

I kinda wonder what would happen when Kazuya is in the brink of facing certain death. What true colors will he show? Will he be the same as the very people he despises, and realize his mistake, or will he become totally different and Kaiji-like?

Kazuma is fair?

Oh please, Kaiji.

 

I mean, he really is. He MAY use psychological tricks every now and then, but he'd never do something like what Tonegawa did during the E-card game, nothing that would count as "cheating", because otherwise his entire set of beliefs would be invalid.

 

One Poker does sound like it'll be a very interesting gamble to watch. However, I'm a bit worried about the "up" and "down" counters. If the game simply follows the "highest number wins" rule (for the exception of the 2-A situation), then why are they divided in two groups? Maybe Kazuya will explain in the following chapter.

I find it interesting that Kazuya views all humans as greedy and self-center as they try to make themselves look like a good guy.  While at the same time, Kazuya as a human, always try to remain neutral (fair) in gambles even if his neutrality ends up hurting his employees or himself. I bet if Kaiji brought this up during the game, it will cause Kazuya's belief system to crack even more.

compared to his past experience where cheating is the norm, Kazuya is more "fair",
although not at the level of the emperor.
That one is simply OP that he'll give you a handicap to give you a chance at winning.