E? Heibon Desu yo??

EDIT: Didn't read the title, chapter 4 definitely is from the wrong manga. At first I actually thought it was a part of this XD.

Wrong series upload guys...

My little Liliana can't be a shonen manga hero.

Or if my gibberish japanese undertanding is worth something "Ore no Liliana ga Konna ni shonen hero ga Nai"

It looks like someone accidentally uploaded the latest chapter of "The New Gate" as chapter 4 of this manga.

"sigh" there's just no point arguing with all of you. Such small details like forehead size are just meaningless, it's not just art that's shoujo-like, it's the characters, their personalities that sparkly, "kind" look of every male in story is like flagship of any shoujo/josei the number of attention given to them as well. Either all of you blatantly ignoring this or perhaps you need to get to know shoujo mangas more.

....

However no use arguing in internet I guess...

Addressing the first point lastly, I beg to differ: There's plenty use arguing on the internet. Just not here: Here the arguing is just for fun, and proffers no usefulness whatsoever.

Overall, it feels to me like a seinen author attempting to emulate Shoujo style. To be clear, I do not think that would not be a bad thing.

But, according to natural-log there's actually a demographic descriptor on the website which appears to settle the matter of demographics, so I guessed wrong about what the author intended it to be XD.

Btw, it's tagged as 一般女性向け(ippan josei muke aka directed for ladies in general) in the official website.

http://www.alphapolis.co.jp/manga/viewOpening/895000083/

What do you guys think?

"sigh" at some point i was thinking of letting you off the hook but seriously don't use "no use arguing in internet" as an excuse, it's pathetic.

What's personalities you are talking about? I re-read the whole 3 chapters a dozen times and still haven't found anything that's exclusive for shoujo.

"that sparkly, "kind" look of every male in story"...1st: it's just 3 chapters so "every" is kind of exaggerating dont u think? 2nd: end of the day it's just come down to art, isn't it? As far as i know, sparkly, kind look male has been everywhere for Christ's sake.

Now you have to ask yourself this question: "Do i still think of this manga as Shoujo if I redraw it using Shounen art, To-Love Ru's art for example".

Your argument will only becomes valid if there are more shoujo/josei elements in it. But right now, too early for that.

Btw before i forget, in many cases, demographics can be useless in describing anime and manga. Yawara! is a good example.

And that pretty much sums it up...

those 3 chapters have plenty of elements shoujo mangas have. Unless they take 180 degree turn in later chapters it's not going to change. If after 3 re-reads you don't see them then you just don't see them. It's really hard to describe them with words, and apparently my previous attempts failed so I'm not going to try any more. It's something you have to notice yourself, I can't help you here, read something like "Hapi mari" if you can't find anything similar at all to this one then you're just not familiar enough with shoujo style (yes I called it "style" on purpose).

Your question sounds similiar to "Would butter still be butter if you remove fat from it"? But here's my answer anyway - yes, big shoujo-ish part would be lost if you'd convert style to love-ru, but no it'd still be shoujo if nothing else changes (unless you insert tons of ecchi as well). However if I wanted media where art means nothing, I'd read a novel.

"sigh" there's just no point arguing with all of you. Such small details like forehead size are just meaningless, it's not just art that's shoujo-like, it's the characters, their personalities that sparkly, "kind" look of every male in story is like flagship of any shoujo/josei the number of attention given to them as well. Either all of you blatantly ignoring this or perhaps you need to get to know shoujo mangas more. 

 And once again, I KNOW demographic is not the same as style genre, however let's be real, people use those "demographic tags" as an anchor to describe general looks of manga for ages, it's just practical. I'm sure if anyone who wasn't part of this conversation skim through this manga's chapters the first thing they'd think would be "shoujo manga" (or josei)(unless they never read those).  So why break that? Maybe it's technically incorrect if they actually serialize this for seinen which once again I'm very doubtful, but it's simple and clear. 

  However no use arguing in internet I guess...

"sigh" at some point i was thinking of letting you off the hook but seriously don't use "no use arguing in internet" as an excuse, it's pathetic.

What's personalities you are talking about? I re-read the whole 3 chapters a dozen times and still haven't found anything that's exclusive for shoujo.

"that sparkly, "kind" look of every male in story"...1st: it's just 3 chapters so "every" is kind of exaggerating dont u think? 2nd: end of the day it's just come down to art, isn't it? As far as i know, sparkly, kind look male has been everywhere for Christ's sake.

Now you have to ask yourself this question: "Do i still think of this manga as Shoujo if I redraw it using Shounen art, To-Love Ru's art for example".

Your argument will only becomes valid if there are more shoujo/josei elements in it. But right now, too early for that.

Btw before i forget, in many cases, demographics can be useless in describing anime and manga. Yawara! is a good example.

"sigh" there's just no point arguing with all of you. Such small details like forehead size are just meaningless, it's not just art that's shoujo-like, it's the characters, their personalities that sparkly, "kind" look of every male in story is like flagship of any shoujo/josei the number of attention given to them as well. Either all of you blatantly ignoring this or perhaps you need to get to know shoujo mangas more. 

 And once again, I KNOW demographic is not the same as style genre, however let's be real, people use those "demographic tags" as an anchor to describe general looks of manga for ages, it's just practical. I'm sure if anyone who wasn't part of this conversation skim through this manga's chapters the first thing they'd think would be "shoujo manga" (or josei)(unless they never read those).  So why break that? Maybe it's technically incorrect if they actually serialize this for seinen which once again I'm very doubtful, but it's simple and clear. 

  However no use arguing in internet I guess...

Putting in my two cents, I had assumed that the demographic was seinen and the art was shoujo-esque because it was intended to be a (rather geeky) subversion of the "Girl gets sucked into another world and becomes a magical princess" trope.

The series actually does strike me as seinen, though, in subtleties of art and pacing.

In terms of art in particular, let me explain what I mean. Let us dissect the top-left panel in Ch2. pg.1 ( http://vatoto.com/read/_/290029/e-heibon-desu-yo_ch2_by_ak-scanlations). The artist renders Lilliana with:

"Seinen manga (青年漫画^?) is manga marketed to a male audience aged roughly 17 on into their 40s." -Wikipedia

 

Look, I understand that theme and style may not decide demographic, and yet they're very important. Do you honestly believe that manga that look like this is something that guys normally would read? Some do, sure, I myself might continue reading it, because I like reincarnation stories.

 

However majority of male readers most likely going to skip it because it looks exactly like shoujo in every way. So, some seinen magazine there decided to serialize this to their demographic, although I find that very hard to believe but even if it's true, I think it would be wiser to mark it correctly here. Since readers of these websites search manga exactly by these tags and not by magazine it is being serialized in. 

 

If there's dark shit coming in the story, then yeah, shoujo may not be fitting tag, "josei" then, but not seinen. If only small part of seinen would pick this up it doesn't mean that it should be considered as their type of manga. That is my common sense.

That's why you are too quick too label it "Shoujo". So far the only thing that's shoujo-ish in this manga is art style, and that's alone won't be enough to label it Shoujo. To be Shoujo or Josei it has to contains elements that attract girls and women which is usually romance, triangle love, reverse harem...things like that. A reincarnated girl doing cute things and applying knowledge from previous life is nothing shoujo yet. And when dark elements come in, without some serious romance, it'll be more Seinen than Josei.

So you're saying this is aimed at seinen type demographics? ...Really?

It speaks of history, economics, and other science related matters. It's clearly targeted at people having good general knowledge, just like Spice And Wolf and Maoyuu Maou Yuusha.

Even though it's being adapted from light novel that's clearly shoujo.

There's nothing actually ''clearly'' here beyond your unsubstantiated assertions. Actually explain and try to persuade us to your side, don't just state the facts as you believe them to be.

So what confirms the LN as being shoujo? Any official statement?

Also even though this manga is marked as shoujo almost everywhere else?

Except Batoto is one of the only sites respecting the scanlators and actually making them able to have their input in the mangas they upload. Most other sites take their works without permission, and do the tags themselves.

So I prefer to trust Batoto's version, thank you very much.

True I don't know what type of magazine was this serialized in, but if TO-LOVE-RU would be serialized in usually horror themed magazine would you obstinately state it's manga of that genre as well?

...You actually think you are making a point by conflating demographics and genre? You didn't make any good point here, you just look, pardon the expression, foolish.

Pro tip: shounen, shoujo, seinen, josei = demographics. Horror, yaoi, yuri, romcom = genres.

Thanks, but I'll pass and instead use a thing called "common sense".

Not only is that not a good argument, appeal to common sense is a logical fallacy, a faulty reasoning. If that's all your ''evidence'' that this is shoujo falls on, maybe consider re examining your preconceptions.

It seems that you don't really know the definition of Shoujo

 

 

Your common sense comes from the fact that you define a "Shoujo" manga by its style and theme which are usually decided by targeted demographics and encouraged by the magazine it's published in.

As far as we know this manga has slavery and some religious shit in it, so one can expect things turn really dark at any moment, which is more suitable for a seinen, not shoujo.
 

"Seinen manga (青年漫画^?) is manga marketed to a male audience aged roughly 17 on into their 40s." -Wikipedia

Look, I understand that theme and style may not decide demographic, and yet they're very important. Do you honestly believe that manga that look like this is something that guys normally would read? Some do, sure, I myself might continue reading it, because I like reincarnation stories.

However majority of male readers most likely going to skip it because it looks exactly like shoujo in every way. So, some seinen magazine there decided to serialize this to their demographic, although I find that very hard to believe but even if it's true, I think it would be wiser to mark it correctly here. Since readers of these websites search manga exactly by these tags and not by magazine it is being serialized in. 

If there's dark shit coming in the story, then yeah, shoujo may not be fitting tag, "josei" then, but not seinen. If only small part of seinen would pick this up it doesn't mean that it should be considered as their type of manga. That is my common sense.

So you're saying this is aimed at seinen type demographics? ...Really? Even though it's being adapted from light novel that's clearly shoujo. Also even though this manga is marked as shoujo almost everywhere else? True I don't know what type of magazine was this serialized in, but if TO-LOVE-RU would be serialized in usually horror themed magazine would you obstinately state it's manga of that genre as well? Thanks, but I'll pass and instead use a thing called "common sense".

It seems that you don't really know the definition of Shoujo

Each of these five types—shonen, shojo, seinen, josei, and kodomomuke—is focused on a specific target demographic. They are not genres (action, romance, coming of age, etc.). Rather, they are just labels for who the intended audience is.

Your common sense comes from the fact that you define a "Shoujo" manga by its style and theme which are usually decided by targeted demographics and encouraged by the magazine it's published in.

As far as we know this manga has slavery and some religious shit in it, so one can expect things turn really dark at any moment, which is more suitable for a seinen, not shoujo.
 

...you do know Seinen and Shoujo only means the anthology magazines the manga is usually serialized in, right? The style and themes don't matter, it's the targeted demographics that do. And I'm pretty sure the scanlators know the magazines they took this manga from better than you.

You would think regular manga readers would know that much about now.

So you're saying this is aimed at seinen type demographics? ...Really? Even though it's being adapted from light novel that's clearly shoujo. Also even though this manga is marked as shoujo almost everywhere else? True I don't know what type of magazine was this serialized in, but if TO-LOVE-RU would be serialized in usually horror themed magazine would you obstinately state it's manga of that genre as well? Thanks, but I'll pass and instead use a thing called "common sense".

Actually according to gravity theory, the entire universe does orbit the earth. Sort of. All matter exerts gravitational attraction on all other matter. So it's more proper to say the earth and the sun orbit their center of mass, which happens to be within the surface of the sun. The sun wobbles a lot, very slightly because of earth, rather significantly because of jupiter. Our moon orbits the sun, but is also pulled along by the earth. And our solar system is pulled around the center of mass of our galaxy, etc etc. But still, distant galaxy's are influence by the gravity of earth, or even my little toe. ALL FEAR ME!

Actually, an even simpler example is that Earth is the centre of the observable universe. This is not a reflection of its cosmic status, however. It's just the point the observation is being done from. Beyond, the observable universe is just too far to see, limited by speed of light (confusingly, despite the universe being ~13 billion years old the observable universe has a radius closer to ~45 billion light years and the radius of the actual universe is even bigger. Something to do with how the expansion of space-time isn't limited by the speed of light).

Here is an artistic representation of the universe, in which you can clearly the Earth close to the center (warning: only watch on computers, the image is ridiculously large, so it's a burden for mobile phones)

I've seen enough shoujos to recognize one. Although sometimes it's hard to determine, but in this case, artwork, female lead, importance and amount of male characters and even the plot (although it's true it can change, I really doubt it can change enough to overturn previously mentioned attributes). All of that leaves little room to doubt, and I have nothing against shoujo mangas, but calling this "Seinen" which is basically for adult males is plain misleading.

...you do know Seinen and Shoujo only means the anthology magazines the manga is usually serialized in, right? The style and themes don't matter, it's the targeted demographics that do. And I'm pretty sure the scanlators know the magazines they took this manga from better than you.

You would think regular manga readers would know that much about now.

well, let's see how she applies her "heretical" ways and reforms the country and the world!

Depending on how u label a manga "Shoujo". Art: definitely; Plot: too early (for us) to say; Targeted reader: guess not

I've seen enough shoujos to recognize one. Although sometimes it's hard to determine, but in this case, artwork, female lead, importance and amount of male characters and even the plot (although it's true it can change, I really doubt it can change enough to overturn previously mentioned attributes). All of that leaves little room to doubt, and I have nothing against shoujo mangas, but calling this "Seinen" which is basically for adult males is plain misleading. 

I've read the description note and having very hard time understanding - in what possible way is this a "seinen" manga?

No matter how you look this is pure absolute shoujo, scanlator, stop the BS...

Depending on how u label a manga "Shoujo". Art: definitely; Plot: too early (for us) to say; Targeted reader: guess not

I've read the description note and having very hard time understanding - in what possible way is this a "seinen" manga?

No matter how you look this is pure absolute shoujo, scanlator, stop the BS...

Actually according to gravity theory, the entire universe does orbit the earth. Sort of. All matter exerts gravitational attraction on all other matter. So it's more proper to say the earth and the sun orbit their center of mass, which happens to be within the surface of the sun. The sun wobbles a lot, very slightly because of earth, rather significantly because of jupiter. Our moon orbits the sun, but is also pulled along by the earth. And our solar system is pulled around the center of mass of our galaxy, etc etc. But still, distant galaxy's are influence by the gravity of earth, or even my little toe. ALL FEAR ME!

just throught what about a hot air balloon or a glider with magic both can be made and easy to use even without specialised knowledge and what about music instruments it's not uncommon for kids to learn play something when there young even when it's the recorder or basic flute. If she dose not know how to wood crave then she doesn't have to go far to find someone who can.

A hot-air balloon is an excellent example of what I was talking about. If you have fire/heat/air magic you should be able to find a way to make it work even without having the ability to build one from scratch in our world.

At least with baking.  I mean, stuff cooked in a frying pan or what, you can do whatever feels right up to a point . . . but "baking is science for hungry people!".

Cool down, Hannelore.

I pointed out to Columbus' time, but even before the Renaissance it was common knowledge: see for instance Dante's The Divine Comedy: Hell is a cone going through the spherical Earth, down to the center of the spherical Earth (which, once crossed, means that gravity is reversed), Dante and Virgil emerging on the Southern Hemisphere)

Indeed.  My understanding is that in Columbus' own case, it's not that he thought the world was round and other people he argued with thought it was flat--it's that he thought it was smaller than it in fact is, and that relying on trade winds and certain islands, it would be possible to get all the way to China without running out of supplies, while they thought it was as big as it actually is and that anyone trying to make a voyage that long on what they imagined would be an ocean as big as (Atlantic + Pacific + more ocean where North America turns out to be) would inevitably die of thirst long before they arrived.  They were right, he was just lucky there turned out to be this big landmass a bit less than halfway to where he was going.

But at that same time, the common understanding of your typical man on the street would have been world = flat.  As I understand it, through the middle ages there was often a wide divide between what the scholarly community believed and what the common non-Latin-reading people thought.  

Anyway, I'm iffy with how this is handling the actual tech issues, but it has a nice gentle feel about it so I'm following.

I don't know about that... if I was a high school girl, I would make ecchi poses in the mirror then TRY to design a toilet. Imagine losing access to toilets. I would die before giving up on making a toilet. In fact, I'm going to research how to make toilets right now in case shit hits the fan and I need to bug out.

The problem with making a toilet isn't so much the toilet.  Oh, sure, a decent design might be a bit tricky, but a lousy design will still pretty much work.

The problem with making a toilet is that for it to be useful, first you need an aqueduct, water pipes, and a sewer system or an understanding of septic tank technology.  Toilets are less a technology and more a manifestation of sufficient social organization.  If you want toilets, you'll need to beat people's heads into accepting increased taxation to pay for social goods.