Witch Craft Works

So the kagari household locked Ayaka away for some reason - possibly due to her strength (either being able to create, or control a flame kitsune).

Welp, I guess we know their origins now.

...Also, my bet as to what happened to the Kagari household...

As I previously mentioned I've been playing devil's advocate as that particular argument is not my own, as such my ability to further contribute to that side of the argument has pretty much been exhausted lol. I was presenting what I could understand of their reasoning which seems to boil down to that honorifics are not the important part, it's the meaning behind them and that that meaning can be and should be conveyed in English as the whole purpose of the translation is exactly that, to translate it into English not an amalgam between English and Japanese which relies on the audiences esoteric knowledge to fill in the blanks.

As I also mentioned if you are interested you can find those arguments with a quick google search. They are by people who studied for numerous years to be professional translators and have worked as such in various business and industrial fields for years translating documents and the likes. It's interesting to see how the few on honorifics is completely different outside the manga/anime industry especially among people who make their living out of translation. 

Just on point one [...]

There's another thing to consider. When a translator has a book on her hands she knows that it wont change in the course of time, and that she will have very few space constraints to make the author's points across. It is said that when translating from japanese, the translator is as she's a different author in and of herself, because she need to rewrite the book completely from scratch and at the end the translated book is as if it has a a "featuring" the japanese author label on it.

When you translate manga all the space you have is inside a bubble, and you know that what is the right context now it can be turned over in a few chapters. How many times have we seen names changed after 20 or so chapters because they didnt translate unequivocally? So as a sign of respect for the mangaka, and make do of the space available, translators need to keep as many original telltale signals to make points across. 

LOL, no no need to hide. Your logic has two fatal flaws tho:

 

1. honorifics DO NOT translate, because they are integral with the japanese society which has no equal in the world. If someone refers to someone else by attaching a -san -sama -kun -dono- or -chan to a surname, or a first name, to a older younger or same age person it's a very powerful telltale sign that cannot be localized. I still remeber what my country importers did to japanese culture in order to "localize" anime, and i still shiver. Also i remember in The World God Only Knows where nii-sama was translated as "exalted brother". This wont do.

 

2.We have the luck of being in a all-japanese mnga site, so people are either accotumed to or are willing to learn the very basic for enjoying these things. It's something that can be learned very fast as they deliver so much information they are surely worth the effort.

Just on point one but a quick google search will throw up quite a few discussions on this point from professional Japanese to English/English to Japanese translators outside the anime and manga world who disagree and believe it or not call it lazy to leave them in. To quote one of them

From my own personal standpoint though I'm in the camp described in point 2. While the actually paid to do it professionally professional types disagree and you'd outright fail a business or academics level translation course doing it that way I don't see the problem with it in manga as we all know what they mean here anyway due to it being such a niche, esoteric market. It's like using jargon when commenting on football; pretty much everyone who'll be watching it will be clued in on it all so the commentators can just fire it all off without any care.

Just for the sake of being a devil's advocate but translation is only part of the localization process, the aim of which is to adapt the content into a new locale. By not translating things than can be translated or by attempting to include things that are not present in the new locale you create something that sounds very unnatural in the new language and have failed to completely localize it. As many honorific DO have English equivalents, albeit adjective words or phrases, you do not actually need to leave them intact to retain the meaning of the dialogue; because remember it is the meaning of the dialogue you want to retain not a literal translation in which you simply do not translate the things you can't find a singular word equivalent for. 

 

*runs and hides because so many people on the internet don't know what devil's advocate means*

LOL, no no need to hide. Your logic has two fatal flaws tho:

1. honorifics DO NOT translate, because they are integral with the japanese society which has no equal in the world. If someone refers to someone else by attaching a -san -sama -kun -dono- or -chan to a surname, or a first name, to a older younger or same age person it's a very powerful telltale sign that cannot be localized. I still remeber what my country importers did to japanese culture in order to "localize" anime, and i still shiver. Also i remember in The World God Only Knows where nii-sama was translated as "exalted brother". This wont do.

2.We have the luck of being in a all-japanese mnga site, so people are either accotumed to or are willing to learn the very basic for enjoying these things. It's something that can be learned very fast as they deliver so much information they are surely worth the effort.

I don't have a problem with most of what you said, you're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with the honourific part. While honourifics aren't terribly useful in English, mainly just denoting gender, they are a very important component of Japanese and carry all sorts of valuable context in addition to gender, such as societal and familial relationships. Translating them out removes a lot of interpersonal nuance from the language.

Just for the sake of being a devil's advocate but translation is only part of the localization process, the aim of which is to adapt the content into a new locale. By not translating things than can be translated or by attempting to include things that are not present in the new locale you create something that sounds very unnatural in the new language and have failed to completely localize it. As many honorific DO have English equivalents, albeit adjective words or phrases, you do not actually need to leave them intact to retain the meaning of the dialogue; because remember it is the meaning of the dialogue you want to retain not a literal translation in which you simply do not translate the things you can't find a singular word equivalent for. 

*runs and hides because so many people on the internet don't know what devil's advocate means*

I've been thinking:

That fox and Ayaka have the same power...maybe they're one and the same?  Would that mean Ayaka is Takamiya's familiar?

More like the fox is Ayaka's familiar.

That fox and Ayaka have the same power...maybe they're one and the same?  Would that mean Ayaka is Takamiya's familiar?

Holy shit

If kitsune means fox spirit then just translate it when it appears you fucking idiots

Do you think leaving it in is cute? Cool, perhaps?

No. It gets in the way and it's cringey as fuck, just translate it - after all, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do.

Same goes for all this sensei and honourific bullshit, do it properly in future you incompetent faggots

 

By leaving it in you're just confirming that you haven't done your job

Please whine more, show how disrespectful to the scanlators you can be. If you don't like it, then grow up and help translate instead of complaining.

Holy shit
If kitsune means fox spirit then just translate it when it appears you fucking idiots
Do you think leaving it in is cute? Cool, perhaps?
No. It gets in the way and it's cringey as fuck, just translate it - after all, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do.
Same goes for all this sensei and honourific bullshit, do it properly in future you incompetent faggots

By leaving it in you're just confirming that you haven't done your job

the kitsune translation stuff remind me this

Spoiler

Holy shit

If kitsune means fox spirit then just translate it when it appears you fucking idiots

Do you think leaving it in is cute? Cool, perhaps?

No. It gets in the way and it's cringey as fuck, just translate it - after all, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do.

Same goes for all this sensei and honourific bullshit, do it properly in future you incompetent faggots

 

By leaving it in you're just confirming that you haven't done your job

I am honestly enjoying your rage.

Protip: that is how the scanlation world works. You say its cringey, but it's you that have to step up that weeb knowledge. How about you grow up from those 4Kids shows that you've been watching. You're rollin with the big boys now desu~

Holy shit

If kitsune means fox spirit then just translate it when it appears you fucking idiots

Do you think leaving it in is cute? Cool, perhaps?

No. It gets in the way and it's cringey as fuck, just translate it - after all, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do.

Same goes for all this sensei and honourific bullshit, do it properly in future you incompetent faggots

 

By leaving it in you're just confirming that you haven't done your job

Hi. I'm a scanlator, though I don't work specifically on this series.

As such though, I kindly invite you to fuck the hell off and go back to whatever dark hole you came from. We do not give a shit about what you think, so stop pretending like your opinion matters in the slightest.

This chapter gave me a few ideas

Where does it go from here I would really like to know, but I guess I will have to wait 2 more months...

Holy shit
If kitsune means fox spirit then just translate it when it appears you fucking idiots
Do you think leaving it in is cute? Cool, perhaps?
No. It gets in the way and it's cringey as fuck, just translate it - after all, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do.
Same goes for all this sensei and honourific bullshit, do it properly in future you incompetent faggots
 
By leaving it in you're just confirming that you haven't done your job

Holy shit

If kitsune means fox spirit then just translate it when it appears you fucking idiots

Do you think leaving it in is cute? Cool, perhaps?

No. It gets in the way and it's cringey as fuck, just translate it - after all, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do.

Same goes for all this sensei and honourific bullshit, do it properly in future you incompetent faggots

By leaving it in you're just confirming that you haven't done your job

Wait, so is kazane perhaps not kagari's biological mother? I mean, kagari is obviously related to the kagari clan we saw in this chapter. Just based of on apperances alone, let alone the whole fire thing.

Wait, so is kazane perhaps not kagari's biological mother? I mean, kagari is obviously related to the kagari clan we saw in this chapter. Just based of on apperances alone, let alone the whole fire thing.

uh... uuuuuuuuuuh... uuuuuh...

I've seen a short clip of Bayonetta 2 on YouTube and I had this revelation. Witchcraft Works would totally work as a game with style similar to Bayonetta (with less fanservice). If the game incorporated all the little details from the manga it would be even better. As for story,it would be enough for someone to kidnap Takamiya and Kagari would go on a rampage beating everybody out until she finds someone that knows and then beating those till they plot further. Add familiar enemies, allies, unlockable playable characters and you've got a good game.

 

P.S. Think of Kagari fighting giant nurse Kagari...

funny enough i think it would work... could even do a sort of ulti with her on the dragon.

(lets not start the whole, Bayonetta 'fanservice' topic, it was in the first game, so it was in the second game.... and besides its pretty much explained why its there in the game)

I've seen a short clip of Bayonetta 2 on YouTube and I had this revelation. Witchcraft Works would totally work as a game with style similar to Bayonetta (with less fanservice). If the game incorporated all the little details from the manga it would be even better. As for story,it would be enough for someone to kidnap Takamiya and Kagari would go on a rampage beating everybody out until she finds someone that knows and then beating those till they plot further. Add familiar enemies, allies, unlockable playable characters and you've got a good game.

P.S. Think of Kagari fighting giant nurse Kagari...