World Trigger

Don't worry...we got 7 chapters of our "MC" running with "Golden goose"(man what a fucking nickname,i hate it)....so yeah enjoy Osamu running...and running...and running. If that's the tension you speak of...we get plenty of it.

********Spoilers*********

@xzx_ lol does that even sound like tension? Then that's not what I was talking about, my friend. Not even close. Don't think I like Osamu because he's a reactionary hero, because he wasn't. When the story introduced him, he was actively pursuing his overall want (virtue). He was showing initiative and drive, even if he sucked at risk assessment and lacked life experience (which makes sense for his age and level of training; joining Border kills two birds with one stone in that regard). Over a dozen chapters or so, the author spent equal time on world building and development for its primary and secondary characters until we got to the shounen power-training chapters, where Osamu gets a combat mentor and some extra development. That was all done well. What the invasion arc has done is stall that budding development in its tracks. It reminds me of Freezing, and that was also a pretty big dud. It's just not handled well if the story is forcing an MC to be purely reactive (in this case, using the prediction of death mechanic, which was a great idea at first). If Osamu truely becomes a reactionary hero, or he discards his overall want, then his character is effectively dead. The concept of a reactionary character is counter intuitive and blatantly self-destructive. There's no way I could support that. On the other hand, this is a great arc for Jin. He's getting a ton of build-up and mystery, so it's not like it's a complete waste of time.

Hmm "Golden Goose".

The bird who laid golden eggs until the owners' greed got the better of them and they cut her open only to find that she didn't have any gold in her.

So the question is, if they catch her, will they use up Chika or do they have other plans in mind.

********Spoilers?*********

@xzx_ I saw a post from crashdevil22 below also expressing the desire to see the girl captured and the MC lose. Stories of any medium that do this without understanding how to segue into a rescue mission tend to cripple themselves like Bleach did so many years ago. There is nothing good about that. Not even remotely. What World Trigger needs as of the invasion arc is tension of a different sort. Well, assuming the story is still treating Osamu as the MC...

Don't worry...we got 7 chapters of our "MC" running with "Golden goose"(man what a fucking nickname,i hate it)....so yeah enjoy Osamu running...and running...and running. If that's the tension you speak of...we get plenty of it.

Up-to-Date. Crap.

Huh?

Up-to-Date. Crap.

That's a little bit harsh... You know that creating an interesting story is hard, right? Creating interesting characters is just as hard as that. I actually like how the characters of World Trigger feels generic and realistic. If you're talking about each character's story/development, then you should give it more time to develop. You can't just compare the characters of this manga on famous shonens like One Piece and Naruto. Did you even know the previous works of this author? The award winning Room 303 oneshot shows that the author is serious on showing his world building/character creations/story and not just "just showing off how many 'unique' faces he can draw for this manga" like you said.

 

tldr the author is serious on his works and not just playing around

The creation of interesting characters or plot hooks? That's easy. You can walk yourself through it. People do that all the time and get better at it as they grow in experience. What makes it hard is following through and completing something that is ready to be consumed. It requires discipline and professionalism. No one is saying the author isn't serious about his job, because if he wasn't, he wouldn't be able to do this for a living. He literally wouldn't be able to finish a manuscript. This goes for every author that makes a living off of their writing.

-Sometimes I think the mangaka is just showing off how many 'unique' faces he can draw for this manga...

-I really expect (and hope) the story to focus on Chika in the near future. afaik, she's the only one with a clear goal, and I'm quite interested in what the mangaka would have her do as a "trion monster".

That's a little bit harsh... You know that creating an interesting story is hard, right? Creating interesting characters is just as hard as that. I actually like how the characters of World Trigger feels generic and realistic. If you're talking about each character's story/development, then you should give it more time to develop. You can't just compare the characters of this manga on famous shonens like One Piece and Naruto. Did you even know the previous works of this author? The award winning Room 303 oneshot shows that the author is serious on showing his world building/character creations/story and not just "just showing off how many 'unique' faces he can draw for this manga" like you said.

tldr the author is serious on his works and not just playing around

-Sometimes I think the mangaka is just showing off how many 'unique' faces he can draw for this manga...

-I really expect (and hope) the story to focus on Chika in the near future. afaik, she's the only one with a clear goal, and I'm quite interested in what the mangaka would have her do as a "trion monster".

link to ch73 isn't working. please fix it

It's working you just have to wait a couple o hours. New chapters glitch out like that on batoto usually. I think it's becuase a large amount of people are trying to read the chapter at the same time lagging the servers.

link to ch73 isn't working. please fix it

Okay everybody calm down, let's just be fans of the series. If you aren't okay, if you are that's good too. We don't always have to be critics, let's be grateful that we got that Q&A so we know a little more details about the series.

You better just read the latest chapters then leave the wesbite after that. That's what I'm doing most of the time.

Okay everybody calm down, let's just be fans of the series. If you aren't okay, if you are that's good too. We don't always have to be critics, let's be grateful that we got that Q&A so we know a little more details about the series.

uhhh... I'll wager you don't read a whole lot of actual literature- it's done quite a bit.  Lord of the Flies had more of a "group" protagonist than any individual boy, Koontz's 77 shadow street has multiple protagonists who are all given roughly the same amount of  face time- although quite a few major characters die in the course of the book- there's no individual main character.  World War Z by Brooks is a string of interviews with various different individuals pertaining to the start, duration, and aftermath of a global epidemic- that's just a sampling from the books currently on my dresser. Then there's books i haven't read such as Fried Green Tomatoes, secrets of the ya-ya sisterhood, etc.  

Honestly the main reason that a good chunk of books you read and most television do not have multiple protagonists in them is because it adds complexity- the reader has to keep track of events happening to multiple main characters and a lot of editors think the majority of consumers are too simple for that. Don't write him off because he's doing something different- I agree it's harder to pull off, but don't put him down by saying things like "writing by instinct" when he's actually trying to accomplish something more technically difficult than your typical mainstream manga artist.

Technically difficult? Lord of the Flies had a strong central protagonist and theme that tied the actions of the children together. That was a well done example of one of the theming results I explained, using an ensamble cast. Shadow Street is something I'm not familiar with. 2011, huh? Is it good? I've been really bad about keeping up with modern literature post 2008 due to real life circumstances (been deaths in the family). Please forgive me on that end. I found World War Z to be great world building excercise. I don't actually treat it as a story like you seem to be doing. I think you're confusing something. Just because something isn't a story doesn't mean it isn't entertaining or even well done. You can have tons of technical achievement in prose. The problem comes when someone writes something with the intent to be a story and forgets to do so part-way through, turning into a world-building chronology or a sport without realizing what just happened. In this case, World Trigger had started something with Osamu and was doing a great job tying the world around him together with his overall want, presenting challenges and introducing his character flaws. Then, they didn't introduce any compelling overarching antagonist (or if he did, there's little to no tension against Osamu's overall want as a direct result), and now it is heavily invested in building the world again for a future conflict. In that respect, World Trigger is turning into every other famous shounen that has failed on fundamental levels (Naruto, Bleach). This pit fall isn't limited to manga since there are plenty of fiction novels printed out of equally bad quality all the time. Like I said, the chance of the story coming back to Osamu isn't zero, but given the author's interview, I'm folding and reigning in my expectations. The author does give some troll answers in the interviews, so I can hope that he wasn't being serious. I still desperately want to see where Osamu will go. I love the character, and I appreciate what the author started with him, but that is also the reason I'm coming off so salty. I'll only ever abondon this series if it turns into Tokyo Goul (RIP MC).

@Bdb Perhaps we're just not speaking the same language. As someone who was mentored in screenwriting for books and movies (not television), I'm pretty sure I'm just missing something (jargon 2stronk). What is a story as you understand it? Do you agree or disagree with "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"?

Hahahaha that answers a lot of things. Another writer that attempts to write by instinct alone. What a shame. I really wanted a protagonist like Osamu to be successful, especially in manga, which typically favor characters that have no wherewithal for self actualization. The chances aren't zero, but I wouldn't bet money on anything working out. Thanks for the link.

 

To clarify to anyone curious, in storytelling, you can have as many central characters as you want, but in order to maintain cohesion of theme, you should only have one protagonist. ... Novels and television series that ignore all of these things while still being successful business ventures, like Game of Thrones or reality TV, aren't stories. Those are sports hybridised with storytelling elements, and they're very entertaining, but don't confuse the two.

uhhh... I'll wager you don't read a whole lot of actual literature- it's done quite a bit.  Lord of the Flies had more of a "group" protagonist than any individual boy, Koontz's 77 shadow street has multiple protagonists who are all given roughly the same amount of  face time- although quite a few major characters die in the course of the book- there's no individual main character.  World War Z by Brooks is a string of interviews with various different individuals pertaining to the start, duration, and aftermath of a global epidemic- that's just a sampling from the books currently on my dresser. Then there's books i haven't read such as Fried Green Tomatoes, secrets of the ya-ya sisterhood, etc.  

Honestly the main reason that a good chunk of books you read and most television do not have multiple protagonists in them is because it adds complexity- the reader has to keep track of events happening to multiple main characters and a lot of editors think the majority of consumers are too simple for that. Don't write him off because he's doing something different- I agree it's harder to pull off, but don't put him down by saying things like "writing by instinct" when he's actually trying to accomplish something more technically difficult than your typical mainstream manga artist.

Daisuke Ashihara answered some fan in vol 5-8 and one of the questions that was asked was this.

 

Q. Who's the protagonist, Yuuma or Osamu

 

A. Either is OK. Personally, I think all four characters on the title page in chapter 1 to be the protagonist. 

(The four characters being: Jin, Osamu, Chika, and Yuuma.)

 

You could the rest here: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/81454-World-Trigger-by-ASHIHARA-Daisuke/page27

Hahahaha that answers a lot of things. Another writer that attempts to write by instinct alone. What a shame. I really wanted a protagonist like Osamu to be successful, especially in manga, which typically favor characters that have no wherewithal for self actualization. The chances aren't zero, but I wouldn't bet money on anything working out. Thanks for the link.

To clarify to anyone curious, in storytelling, you can have as many central characters as you want, but in order to maintain cohesion of theme, you should only have one protagonist. You can have a proxy (the Watson to Sherlock Holmes; good example is K1 from Higurashi VN), and you can focus on a ton of central characters (The Watchmen comic, the American Hustle movie), but if you fail to have a designated protagonist that carries the theme of your story, you will also fail to maintain interest in your own story. With a protagonist, you can tie together the central characters and have a compelling conflict with the antagonist (in regards to Watchmen, it's Rorschach; also, see Fullmetal Alchemist manga and Brotherhood). In the case of some stories with really weak writing for the antagonist (Guardians of the Galaxy movie) or just plain no central antagonist (Naruto manga, so much), the protagnist can maintain interest through strong characterization alone. Failing to create a strong protagonist can lead to an antagonist or secondary character that overshadows the rest of the cast (thereby wasting the time of everyone by not simply making that character the protagonist instead) or, worse case scenerio, no strong protagonist or antagonist, in which case the whole story falls flat on its face and dies a dog's death (the recent Star Trek movies, Baccano in general). The reason why you learn about storytelling is basically to avoid pit-falls en masse. Very few people in the world can write a story instinctively and get away with it (Ray Radbury being an American example). Novels and television series that ignore all of these things while still being successful business ventures, like Game of Thrones or reality TV, aren't stories. Those are sports hybridised with storytelling elements, and they're very entertaining, but don't confuse the two.

Daisuke Ashihara answered some fan in vol 5-8 and one of the questions that was asked was this.

Q. Who's the protagonist, Yuuma or Osamu

A. Either is OK. Personally, I think all four characters on the title page in chapter 1 to be the protagonist. 

(The four characters being: Jin, Osamu, Chika, and Yuuma.)

You could the rest here: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/81454-World-Trigger-by-ASHIHARA-Daisuke/page27

Has anyone else noticed, that many of the names of the Aftokrator people or their attacks are greek? I don't see that very often in manga.

I checked the raws and it looks like the bad guys win this one and mc ends up badly injured.

Hell yeah!

 

 

 

....

But it's the opposite :/

********Spoilers?*********

@xzx_ I saw a post from crashdevil22 below also expressing the desire to see the girl captured and the MC lose. Stories of any medium that do this without understanding how to segue into a rescue mission tend to cripple themselves like Bleach did so many years ago. There is nothing good about that. Not even remotely. What World Trigger needs as of the invasion arc is tension of a different sort. Well, assuming the story is still treating Osamu as the MC...

I checked the raws and it looks like the bad guys win this one and mc ends up badly injured.

Hell yeah!

....

But it's the opposite :/

That's practically the epitome of stupidity, deserving nothing more than a facepalm. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would be able to somewhat weigh the consequences(most obvious something might happen to the person he's protecting) when given the choice of flight or fight.

Edit: just looked at the French ver. and yeah, he's just stupid.

Okumo is a really stupid character yeah. His perosnality and ideas grate on my nerves. I really don't like him. It would be better if he died and Kuga became the MC.

*******SPOILERS*******


Osamu has never shown a capacity for risk reward management. He doesn't seek glory, like someone below stated, and has never even been implied to desire it. He is, however, too eager to take a big risk if it means being "helpful," and that flaw ties perfectly with his desire for virtue. The difference between glory and virtue is literally in how one treats others. Someone who seeks glory sees others as stepping stones (there are no real examples in this story; Kitora doesn't count since it's just a vanity flaw) with few exceptions, while someone who seeks virtue attempts to treat others in a way that reflects their standards, whether this belittles others or not is dependant on that character's set of standards and world experience. Osamu has been incredibly consistent with all these points. While taking the risk of returning could be interpreted as negligence, you must not forget that by implication, she agreed to return as well. Even if the unspoken goal is to seek safety, both characters already have a desire to reach beyond personal safety. Their aweful mistake at risk management is justified here. People are too quick to pin all the blame on Osamu. They share equal blame.

@Haiyami REJOICE! The story is focusing a lot on Kuga and all the secondary characters. Your wish has been granted.

Kuga has little to no character development. We know that Kuga has expectations of Osamu and doesn't know what to do with himself, but that's it. If you like him simply because of his raw combat power and pragmatism, then great. Other than that, focusing on Kuga would only exacerbate what's happening right now with this story and many others: dragging the whole thing down. This entire invasion arc has effectively stalled the story without offering anything beyond a taste of some epic future conflict. No real developement for the central character, and that's a huge bad sign in any story. In that regard, you'd be perfectly right. At this point, it would have been better to give the role to someone else the author would be willing to give more screen time to, because Osamu will never get the chance to be anything, let alone a main character. If it continues like this, it'll be no better than a chronology.

Replica-sensei to the rescue!

i love you Betterthannothing!

 

though might i inquire how far have the raw goes ?

Hey there! I'm not from butterthannothing but the latest is chapter 82. Chapter 83 this week.

i love you Betterthannothing!

though might i inquire how far have the raw goes ?

Okumo is a really stupid character yeah. His perosnality and ideas grate on my nerves. I really don't like him. It would be better if he died and Kuga became the MC.