Only Sense Online

Can't he just log off the game if he wants to wait until things boil over?  If I was constantly getting harassed in a game it'd be the first thing I'd consider.  Just turn off the damn game.  Log in less.  Spending in game money to go into hiding seems excessive.

Because he enjoys playing the game? Logging off the game is like letting the bullies win.

Can't he just log off the game if he wants to wait until things boil over?  If I was constantly getting harassed in a game it'd be the first thing I'd consider.  Just turn off the damn game.  Log in less.  Spending in game money to go into hiding seems excessive.

 

I hate to be 'that guy' but the comment section is getting ridiculous, so I'll give the reminder before the mods get involved.  Please note, rule 3 and 4 of the comment section guidelines:

 

3.For Any Larger Images, All Videos/GIFs, and/or Texts approximately larger than ten lines,​

                 - please use Spoiler Tags and indicate that the contents are not a Plot Spoiler, if required.

      4.Posts not related directly to the manga should be taken to the Respective Forums, or PM.

                 - (Especially series that are animated, or Comments about Scanlators)

 

So take it to the forums or use spoiler tags for long comments.  BEFORE they lock down comments on this manga like they have for others.  

This is actually encouraging, thanks.

 

I'm glad! I actually really like this series partially because I think the writer has given a decent amount of thought to how the game experience would actually flow other than "protagonist grinds better than everyone else and becomes strongest" (which actually describes Myuu better than Yun anyway). Throughout the books, Yun rounds out into a decent jack-of-all-trades plus Mixing specialist which makes him a broadly useful support character, but is outright flattened by others in their fields of choice. Like the only players he'll be able to consistently outperform are some newbies that should show up soon-ish in the manga, and they're mostly there to illustrate how challenging it can be for loners or a duo to actually get going in this game without a hand up like Yun got.

Sorry but that's not the way it goes. The first example I gave, Tamer, came within the week after the server was released, she was pretty much released with the server(if you're not pedantic). She's been treated as useless for more than an year. And only recently have people been stopping their trash talk about her.

Spoiler

It happens all the time in MMORPG, i'm already tired of disproving META common sense in games. I can stay here and give a lot of different examples in a lot of different games just to show you that one individual can indeed discover something in a scenario where there are many other participants in the middle. I've been a warframe player for years now, and there are still many weapons there that are bashed into oblivion, even though they are very, very good. I've been trying to convince others to try them, and even a few other youtubers tried the same later on, but to no avail. People still shit talk about them, and only a few people ever try them.

 

The things you usually see in most games(if not all) are, once a META has been estabilished, close to no one ever tries to explore the other possibilities in the game. Competitive players will drop these other possibilities immediatly, they won't even look at them, they will go from 0 to max level building META(and get crushed by a diminute minority who knows how to make other builds, and play properly). Head to the forums of any game, see how many people there do what you say. In games with separate characters with unique classes these differences get even more pronounced. DFO for example, some classes you won't even see in the game, some character topics in the forums only have a few dozens of players, others have so few players commenting that you can literally count their numbers on your fingers. This in a game where every class can clear any dungeon, and where only 1%(or a bit more) ever head to the endgame where classes tiers matters, and they only matter on the second endgame Raid, because the first one is properly balanced and any class can clear.

 

Just a little something for you, you do realize that your argument contradicts itself by the end right? You see, you just proven that a small number of players can indeed play something no one else has played before. Also, OF COURSE other players will eventually find out about this, this wasn't even in discussion(even in this series, there will be players trying to follow on Nanny's footsteps). And it's also part of the reason why some players like to use things that are originally deemed as useless, to disprove these claims, and see if there's a way to make that something viable for high level content. Some times we fail, but most times we don't, there's always something that gets bashed for the simple reason that others didn't have the patience to learn that this equipment or class shoud've been played differently to other classes/equipment in order to show it's true value.

what the fuck are you on, the post you replied to was specifically talking about keeping it a secret, of course people individually will find something, i mean SOMEONE has to, nobody would even think about saying that the norm for discoveries is for a bunch of people to find it.

 

Also i see by the rest of your post and your insistent talk about tamers than you are some sort of weird mmo contrarian that fancies himself enlightened over the masses or something.

Tamer at release was trash because BDO wasnt a 1v1 game. The meta was dictated by guild vs guild compositions, and in those, tamer could only iframe all day and contribute nothing, meanwhile, Wizards, Giants and Archers were the most usefull.

 

The reason things change is because the meta evolves. There are awakenings now, and theres less guild pvp (last i heard anyway) cause everybody left on the game is a god dam casual pve farmer, so of course Tamer can be more relevant now since like 1 year of patches have passed, nothing is set in stone.

 

I think you are proyecting your contrarian aproach to games to Yun. Hes not doing this to go against some meta, hes doing it because he feels like it. Theres some value in going against the grain like you say, but he doesnt even understand what a meta, or the meta of the game are, cause this is his first fucking mmo.

 

 

 

It's actually early days of the game yet, and as the book series goes on others pick up on what Yun's doing and work it out. Yun's remaining edges come from a couple niche senses and activities that few people bother with, like the Hawkeyes/Enchant synergy (which leads to magic gems and enchant stones), or farming to cultivate high-end potion materials in large numbers faster than others (general demand seems mostly satisfied by gathering in the field). Plus it's glossed over, but the cash he got from Magi and the others early on was a huge boon - 3 million is way more than even the better-off beta players carried over into the final release, and that turned into farmland and a shop weeks if not months before he should have been able to afford them, which means better income and better tools for better recipes even faster. (See also my belief that the player base is actually fairly small, meaning he's competing against fewer people for this lead.)

 

His lead does erode (the 1 vs. 20 thing actually comes up when someone asks his help producing a specific potion, but also drags other crafters into it to take advantage of numbers) but that early boost plus the support of others helps keep him at the forefront even if not running miles ahead of everyone else. All taken together I don't think it's as nuts as others make it sound, and it's not like Yun's presented as some super-protagonist who excels in everything *coughcoughOssancough* but is instead a specialist who stops being a casual pretty fast.

 

 

This is actually encouraging, thanks.

In your examples all of them were released eventually to the playerbase, and thats the the thing. You also cant say that just because those youtubers found out about that it means that they were the only ones, it probably just means  that you and others first saw it there.

 

Ill give an example relevant to the game you are speaking off, black desert.

 

I was on Mangobay in release, we all rolled Wizards at the beggining because we knew lvl 50 with  +15 equipment they were OP as fuck. The whole guild knew it, but the rest of the game seemed mostly oblivious to this fact (they focused on 1v1 classes). People figured it out later as the game went on while players catched up, because MMO´s are very visual, and they saw us, same as anyone can do in this manga. 

 

People are gona watch Yun and figure out what hes doing, i mean hes selling the stuff hes making for crying out loud AND he fights with people as well, hes also a famous player so people are probably keeping tabs on him.

 

Its unrealistic that he discovers so much stuff and keeps it to himself. People also should have caught on the type of thinking hes used, not to mention that hes a casual player, while there are probably whole crafting guilds just straight up having meetings to discuss new recipes, 1 dude cant outhink 20+ people.

People also should have seen his way of aproaching things, and just up straight up copied the method and refined it.

Sorry but that's not the way it goes. The first example I gave, Tamer, came within the week after the server was released, she was pretty much released with the server(if you're not pedantic). She's been treated as useless for more than an year. And only recently have people been stopping their trash talk about her.

 

Just a little something for you, you do realize that your argument contradicts itself by the end right? You see, you just proven that a small number of players can indeed play something no one else has played before. Also, OF COURSE other players will eventually find out about this, this wasn't even in discussion(even in this series, there will be players trying to follow on Nanny's footsteps). And it's also part of the reason why some players like to use things that are originally deemed as useless, to disprove these claims, and see if there's a way to make that something viable for high level content. Some times we fail, but most times we don't, there's always something that gets bashed for the simple reason that others didn't have the patience to learn that this equipment or class shoud've been played differently to other classes/equipment in order to show it's true value.

Thing is, if 20 players equally invest into their skills, they can so easily surpass

 

Part of the point is that there weren't those hypothetical 20 players investing equally into Mixing so early on. It's flat-out part of the text: almost nobody bothered because NPC shops were providing just fine. Some people did it during the beta but it seems demand didn't outstrip NPC supply then, so people neglected Mixing upon final release because hey you can just buy what you need (or learn healing magic) and spend the time on hunting instead, and still come out ahead on money. And if you want to craft, well, gear seems to have a better profit margin than consumables.

 

Fast forward to NPC supply suddenly not keeping up, and in this environment the weirdo hobbyist doing it for fun all along has a huge skill advantage. Then give that weirdo hobbyist tons of cash because some would-be philanthropists want to regulate the game economy from within and decide to promote him to their ranks. Now he has superior tools, shop (income), and material supply (farming) advantages weeks ahead of his nearest competition. And even then, as I've mentioned, the lead does wear off in the face of numbers after a few months, but it helps him stay up in the top 10 out of those 20 when they finally stop being hypothetical.

It's actually early days of the game yet, and as the book series goes on others pick up on what Yun's doing and work it out. Yun's remaining edges come from a couple niche senses and activities that few people bother with, like the Hawkeyes/Enchant synergy (which leads to magic gems and enchant stones), or farming to cultivate high-end potion materials in large numbers faster than others (general demand seems mostly satisfied by gathering in the field). 

Thing is, if 20 players equally invest into their skills, they can so easily surpass

 

Hey, Darkman! You can stop fighting for truth and justice; if you didn't notice already, everyone's dead!

So Creative, I love it

Its unrealistic that he discovers so much stuff and keeps it to himself. People also should have caught on the type of thinking hes used, not to mention that hes a casual player, while there are probably whole crafting guilds just straight up having meetings to discuss new recipes, 1 dude cant outhink 20+ people.

People also should have seen his way of aproaching things, and just up straight up copied the method and refined it.

 

It's actually early days of the game yet, and as the book series goes on others pick up on what Yun's doing and work it out. Yun's remaining edges come from a couple niche senses and activities that few people bother with, like the Hawkeyes/Enchant synergy (which leads to magic gems and enchant stones), or farming to cultivate high-end potion materials in large numbers faster than others (general demand seems mostly satisfied by gathering in the field). Plus it's glossed over, but the cash he got from Magi and the others early on was a huge boon - 3 million is way more than even the better-off beta players carried over into the final release, and that turned into farmland and a shop weeks if not months before he should have been able to afford them, which means better income and better tools for better recipes even faster. (See also my belief that the player base is actually fairly small, meaning he's competing against fewer people for this lead.)

 

His lead does erode (the 1 vs. 20 thing actually comes up when someone asks his help producing a specific potion, but also drags other crafters into it to take advantage of numbers) but that early boost plus the support of others helps keep him at the forefront even if not running miles ahead of everyone else. All taken together I don't think it's as nuts as others make it sound, and it's not like Yun's presented as some super-protagonist who excels in everything *coughcoughOssancough* but is instead a specialist who stops being a casual pretty fast.

Hey, Darkman! You can stop fighting for truth and justice; if you didn't notice already, everyone's dead!

 I know it's a bit late but I'm always bothered by how this "adventures in a MMO" story rarely show the characters getting new gear.

 Anyone who has ever played an MMO that didn't have cosmetic gear or transmogrification would easily go through 50000 different outfits before they even reach max level but here everyone has been using the same outfits for a long while.

In this game, and others like it, the gears stats don't really matter as much as the stats generated from leveling their skills. You see people changing gear quite often in OVRMMO, but here, unless some new system is put in place, you really only have to worry about the bonus effects and appearance.

Yun specifically chose senses that were unpopular and there is a penalty to taking a bunch of unnecessary senses, so most people aren't going to waste their slots even if they knew the specific build he has. Also, it's not like he shared his build to anyone outside of his sisters, taku, and to a lesser extent, their parties and the crafting trio. Some of the stuff he does requires a combination of crafting senses that seem redundant, and he has a scientific approach to potion research that would be annoying to coordinate if each skill required a different person handling the steps. If I'm a crafter in a game, I'm making what I want to make, not be part of some assembly line in an attempt to steal what someone else did.

I'll have to disagree with some people here. It's true that probability states that, due to sheer number of players it's close to imposible to find out something that had never been used before. But frankly that's not true. It's actually more common than you may think. The vast majority of a game's population goes for meta builds, some don't even make an effort to try to explore the possibilities, he just use copy and past on their builds. So yes you can be the first player to find out about something, especially if you've been playing from the beginning of the server, like Yun did(He didn't play during the beta phase though, and due to the way the game works, datamining will not help in determining what is effective skill wise). Also, thanks to archery being worlds apart different in gameplay, people had discredited it quite early.

These kinds of things are so real that I can even cite, Black Desert, where it's usually "common sense" that Tamer is the "worst class" in the game, and yet a diminute number of people actually know that Tamer is a beast, this status quo had been kept for quite a long time, until a couple of youtubers decided to change this status quo, showing her troucing many of the strongest classes in duels. Same for Striker who had been badmouthed into oblivion during the first week of his released, but now is treated as the strongest class ever. It was One player who found out how much of a beast he was before anyone else.

In your examples all of them were released eventually to the playerbase, and thats the the thing. You also cant say that just because those youtubers found out about that it means that they were the only ones, it probably just means  that you and others first saw it there.

 

Ill give an example relevant to the game you are speaking off, black desert.

 

I was on Mangobay in release, we all rolled Wizards at the beggining because we knew lvl 50 with  +15 equipment they were OP as fuck. The whole guild knew it, but the rest of the game seemed mostly oblivious to this fact (they focused on 1v1 classes). People figured it out later as the game went on while players catched up, because MMO´s are very visual, and they saw us, same as anyone can do in this manga. 

 

People are gona watch Yun and figure out what hes doing, i mean hes selling the stuff hes making for crying out loud AND he fights with people as well, hes also a famous player so people are probably keeping tabs on him.

 

Its unrealistic that he discovers so much stuff and keeps it to himself. People also should have caught on the type of thinking hes used, not to mention that hes a casual player, while there are probably whole crafting guilds just straight up having meetings to discuss new recipes, 1 dude cant outhink 20+ people.

People also should have seen his way of aproaching things, and just up straight up copied the method and refined it.

You guys should try playing Path of Exile. New builds being created/discovered all the time in it because of the sheer number of things you can try.

 

 

I've probably missed it before, but when they reach a new town, does that allow them to fast travel to it whenever or something?

IIRC yes theres teleporting between towns.

I've probably missed it before, but when they reach a new town, does that allow them to fast travel to it whenever or something?

What's more likely is that the servers are simply incredibly small on purpose, so even if there are lots of players, they're not all on one big server or even a few small ones, just lots and lots of very small ones.

 

Add in a cross-server dungeon/LFG option and you won't have issue with players being unable to find others to make parties with.

That's also possible, no I could even add that it's done on purpose in order to offer a better experiece to players, cause VR games needs it's fps as high as possible. One of the problems with MMORPGs is because not even NASA has a computer that can properly handle GvG wars or the multitude of players in the main cities.

I'd like to add that the player numbers are probably way smaller than we're thinking. The multi-million active player MMOs are a rarity rather than a rule, especially if OSO is released only in Japan. (We don't have much information on whether it's international, and I seem to recall early in the books that it's implied the game and VR gear are actually kind of hard to get your hands on yet.) The disproportionate fame and influence a handful of characters are supposed to have also suggests a smaller player base, as does how everyone interested in a major event like the forest camping game could fit into a single plaza in the first town. When the player base is small enough and everyone comes in playing like it's a combat-focused theme-park MMO, then it's easier to believe that a handful of outliers exploring the sandbox will find unusual stuff more readily than the main populace.

 

That, and it's written so the protagonists seem special. But that's just stories in general.

Well theres that... but we cant also deject the fact that if this is base IRL of the future...the VR gear is not an issue..as like in real world if the gear is a consumer goods..its safe to assume its already been "Reverse Engineered" by the Chinese...cuz you know they Chinese they dont give a rats ass if that tech is come with an intellectual property rights...which for me is good.. as we can afford to got any advance tech the future holds to us..

I'd like to add that the player numbers are probably way smaller than we're thinking. The multi-million active player MMOs are a rarity rather than a rule, especially if OSO is released only in Japan. (We don't have much information on whether it's international, and I seem to recall early in the books that it's implied the game and VR gear are actually kind of hard to get your hands on yet.) The disproportionate fame and influence a handful of characters are supposed to have also suggests a smaller player base, as does how everyone interested in a major event like the forest camping game could fit into a single plaza in the first town. When the player base is small enough and everyone comes in playing like it's a combat-focused theme-park MMO, then it's easier to believe that a handful of outliers exploring the sandbox will find unusual stuff more readily than the main populace.

 

That, and it's written so the protagonists seem special. But that's just stories in general.

What's more likely is that the servers are simply incredibly small on purpose, so even if there are lots of players, they're not all on one big server or even a few small ones, just lots and lots of very small ones.

 

Add in a cross-server dungeon/LFG option and you won't have issue with players being unable to find others to make parties with.

due to sheer number of players

 

I'd like to add that the player numbers are probably way smaller than we're thinking. The multi-million active player MMOs are a rarity rather than a rule, especially if OSO is released only in Japan. (We don't have much information on whether it's international, and I seem to recall early in the books that it's implied the game and VR gear are actually kind of hard to get your hands on yet.) The disproportionate fame and influence a handful of characters are supposed to have also suggests a smaller player base, as does how everyone interested in a major event like the forest camping game could fit into a single plaza in the first town. When the player base is small enough and everyone comes in playing like it's a combat-focused theme-park MMO, then it's easier to believe that a handful of outliers exploring the sandbox will find unusual stuff more readily than the main populace.

 

That, and it's written so the protagonists seem special. But that's just stories in general.

This series (and Ossan) reminds me of someone I play an MMORPG with and while the style works in this 'game', it wouldn't work in any real game. He has the same laid back playstyle and tries to figure out the systems on his own while also making his own equipment at his own pace and sort of keeps to himself. A solo player pretty much. While I enjoy these two, it wouldn't work in a real game. These players just end up behind everyone else in game knowledge and general skill, since they tend to keep to themselves.

I also don't think these authors have played a real MMORPG because in a real game these things are discovered quickly and made public, people can't keep them secret because there will always be players who share the knowledge instead of hoarding it for their own profit. There are also datamining threads and sites for this sole purpose, yet we never see it in manga. People can also be incredibly rude but most of the people they come across are polite and nice people.

I like series like this but they're not very realistic when portraying MMORPG players or the games in general.

I'll have to disagree with some people here. It's true that probability states that, due to sheer number of players it's close to imposible to find out something that had never been used before. But frankly that's not true. It's actually more common than you may think. The vast majority of a game's population goes for meta builds, some don't even make an effort to try to explore the possibilities, he just use copy and past on their builds. So yes you can be the first player to find out about something, especially if you've been playing from the beginning of the server, like Yun did(He didn't play during the beta phase though, and due to the way the game works, datamining will not help in determining what is effective skill wise). Also, thanks to archery being worlds apart different in gameplay, people had discredited it quite early.

These kinds of things are so real that I can even cite, Black Desert, where it's usually "common sense" that Tamer is the "worst class" in the game, and yet a diminute number of people actually know that Tamer is a beast, this status quo had been kept for quite a long time, until a couple of youtubers decided to change this status quo, showing her troucing many of the strongest classes in duels. Same for Striker who had been badmouthed into oblivion during the first week of his released, but now is treated as the strongest class ever. It was One player who found out how much of a beast he was before anyone else.

Ahhh... Shame
I wanna see more Yurincest action....

 I know it's a bit late but I'm always bothered by how this "adventures in a MMO" story rarely show the characters getting new gear.

 Anyone who has ever played an MMO that didn't have cosmetic gear or transmogrification would easily go through 50000 different outfits before they even reach max level but here everyone has been using the same outfits for a long while.

 

Eh, it's an unusual leveling system and equipment drops seem fairly rare in favor of crafting, so the gear treadmill doesn't really fit OSO. Gear quality looks based on material, crafter skill, and enhancement items (like the stone that gave Yun's coat auto-repair), not level. Plus improvements can be done after a piece is made (Claude sounds like he's not just fixing but improving Yun's armor in the camping event), and appearance is wholly customizable by crafters. It adds up to a system where you can improve your current gear steadily, and any new gear can be made to look just like the old if you want anyway, so gear improvement may well be "invisible."

 

I like the idea of a level-flattened gear system like that anyway, since it means you can expand your wardrobe with side-grades for specific situations and all your stuff stays relevant. All your gear can be "leveling gear" so you can actually vary your appearance without screwing yourself over in combat. (Now, the expense of good gear keeping everyone restricted to one or two sets of leveling gear is another issue entirely.)

Uhh that charm potion would definitely fetch ridiculous prices on the black market

This series (and Ossan) reminds me of someone I play an MMORPG with and while the style works in this 'game', it wouldn't work in any real game. He has the same laid back playstyle and tries to figure out the systems on his own while also making his own equipment at his own pace and sort of keeps to himself. A solo player pretty much. While I enjoy these two, it wouldn't work in a real game. These players just end up behind everyone else in game knowledge and general skill, since they tend to keep to themselves.

I also don't think these authors have played a real MMORPG because in a real game these things are discovered quickly and made public, people can't keep them secret because there will always be players who share the knowledge instead of hoarding it for their own profit. There are also datamining threads and sites for this sole purpose, yet we never see it in manga. People can also be incredibly rude but most of the people they come across are polite and nice people.

I like series like this but they're not very realistic when portraying MMORPG players or the games in general.

Yeah, the thing is that the characters in this mmos are sort of like Isekai characters in their uncanny capacity to find things that nobody else knows (aparently)

 

The reality is that MMO´s are normally played sometimes by millions of people so the chances of you being the only one who figured out something are always slim to none. In the most extreme circumstances a group of very hardcore players keep the knowledge in their inner circle for some time (it always comes out eventually), but a solo player? a MMO begginer at that? Na dude.

Heh. Someone definitely should have been recording that charm perfume moment.

I do not like this