Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru Episode 8: Twilight of the Golden Witch

Spoiler

i think we're just missing information that subtly suggested

so while the battler from this series was born from kyrie, therefore unable to say that he was born from asumu recall what happened:

at the time of battler's birth from kyrie, asumu also gave birth to a child

and rudolf was planning on keeping his marriage with asumu before kyrie, therefore asumu's child would've taken priority

 

therefore it's no stretch of the imagination that the name intended for asumu's birth child was supposed to be Battler considering they named the kid for asumu (who was secretly kyrie's) battler anyway. 

 

so asumu's stillbirth was named battler ushiromiya. but it was dead, but only rudolf knew. so he swapped the babies and had kyrie's take the name battler as well.

 

were there two battlers? if we take the red truth, "Ushiromiya Battler was born from Ushiromiya Asumu" while our battler from kyrie as being fact as not having logic error, then yeah there were two battlers. but one had their existence hidden, but it still is a fact that baby did exist.

 

helpful to start reading from Ch24C part 2 http://vatoto.com/reader#b29a0757a51b8fc3_31

Spoiler

yes, yasu was conflicted before Battler's announcement of returning since yasu found his relationships to be incestual and unable to produce offspring - his whole existence is tragic

but he was banking on, believing, that George would offer marriage with him and accept him for who he was aka george > jessica. at this point, even after knowing the whole kinzo thing, yasuda sayo still didn't write up the murder scenarios

however, this recovery or sense of saving was denied because yasu's first love Battler, and arguably the love of his life, came into the mix which anyone would perceive as an act of god or fate that no matter what, your life is doomed to be unhappy. so, battler >?< george > jessica.

 

you can see on page 36 of Confessions of Golden Witch part 2, her inner conflicts of either putting george first or putting battler first, which wasn't the case as much between george and jessica.

 

it was after this revalation that she started writing out the crime scenarios - for Battler.

recall, all the stories written, episodes 1-4, were written for Battler hoping he would solve them and remember their promise through participation in an activity that brought them together in the first place - mysteries

 

so while the murders themselves would've occurred due to the greed of the Ushiromiya siblings, the murder mysteries of rokkenjima island would've never been written. we all loved the series due to the mystery aspect, but when it was revealed that the actual events were just plain regular murder did that ruin the mystery aspect?

no, in the same manner as when you enjoy a movie that is grossly exaggerated or not even resembling the truth but is "based on true events".

 

yasuda sayo spent 6+ years (including time before battler's non-return, whenever the two first met) reading mysteries in hopes that he and battler would reunite and still be bonded by their love of mysteries. he then spent the rest of his time before battler's arrival to write his *opus magnum*, his end all be all, his life's work, everything that he knows about the ushiromiyas, the island's properties, the mansion, the relationships between everyone to compose a mystery collection made for his loved one to solve. that is devotion. you can call yasuda mentally broken, but what he wrote and how he predicted the situations to unfold all had us baffled (though it was actually the OG visual novel writer's work).

 

Umineko no naku koro ni isn't about what actually happened on rokkenjima, it's about the use of mystery and magic in a tragic love story between yasuda sayo and battler.

and it was done wonderfully; the question episodes presented "who dunnit & how dunnit" but in a way the 'who dunnit' was more of a 'what dunnit' (witch or human)

then the answer episodes explained in depth the "why dunnit by the actual who". and that was exemplified when in the flashbacks, young battler discussed how the aspect he loved of mysteries was not who or how but why, which was barely delved upon in mystery novels.

 

an intense game of "senpai please notice me"

where love letters in the form of murder mysteries were constructed

Thanks that makes sense but you have to know the truth to think about it. Super dirty move by the witch , really messed me up:D

Question 3:

Spoiler

You raise a good point actually I can't see how he is able to say "Ushiromiya Battler was born from Ushiromiya Asumu." It may be a translation thing. Perhaps if said in Japanese it had more wiggle room or something and it would be true from a certain point of view.

about question 1 i had the impression that yasu was about to carry the plan either way without caring if Battler returns or not. I even thought that she had no clue if he would come or not as she was planing the whole thing. Guess i have to reread some parts.

helpful to start reading from Ch24C part 2 http://vatoto.com/reader#b29a0757a51b8fc3_31

Yep, they did.

 

And now I can hear Akiko-sama's voice again… it was a long, long journey indeed…

 

A 50 volumes manga adaptation, and it never got an anime. =[

there is an anime of umineko actually, but i dont think it covers all the episodes

A beautiful ending...

Spoiler

Question 1 should have been answered through the Confession of the Golden Witch chapters in this episode. Yasu (I choose to refer to Yasu as female as it seems to me that that is the gender she identifies with or feels more comfortable being) was prepared to leave the island and marry George but Battler's return dug up her feelings for him (which I believe is much stronger than her feeling for George or Jessica). This coupled with her dangerously low self-esteem caused a lot of self-doubt and anxiety (body image, incest, guilt, etc etc) and she finally came to the conclusion that happiness was just not possible for her. Battler's return did not "cause" the murders per say but it's the tipping point as at that point she finally came to the conclusion that fate would not allow her any semblance of joy. This may have cultural or religious roots (alternatively this is just her delusional fantasy world, if you don't mind the cruel sentiment) but she believe if she kills everyone including herself they'll be together in the next world (Golden Land) where she will finally be comfortable with who she is, escapes from fate and is allowed love and joy. As she has given up on her life entirely she doesn't really care if it doesn't work out anyway and entrusted everything to fate. After all she has nothing to lose at this stage. If Battler returned one year earlier it would have been before Yasu became the head of the family and found out the truth of her birth (I think, I'm not certain on the timeline) and it would not have been bad enough for her to commit the murder. Either that or she would not have gotten that close to George and would be more willing to take her chances with Battler. If Battler returned one year after she would have already left the island to marry George and the cat would already be out of the bag by then.
 
Question 2: I don't think the manga ever shows this explicitly. However, you can see "it" on the visual novel in that scene (though within context almost everyone would have missed the implication I think). If you're curious you can youtube that scene, it may take a while. In summary, what she sees is Sakutarous on the shelf. Why is this important? Rosa claimed to have made Sakutarou herself. Seeing the doll on the shelf more or less proved that Sakutarou is a commercial product. This shattered the notion that Sakutarou was in anyway special since all Rosa did was buy a local doll and lied about it to Sakura.
 
Question 3: You raise a good point actually I can't see how he is able to say "Ushiromiya Battler was born from Ushiromiya Asumu." It may be a translation thing. Perhaps if said in Japanese it had more wiggle room or something and it would be true from a certain point of view.

about question 1 i had the impression that yasu was about to carry the plan either way without caring if Battler returns or not. I even thought that she had no clue if he would come or not as she was planing the whole thing. Guess i have to reread some parts.

question 2 i saw the part on youtube and i saw it (took a while to notice)

thanks for the answers

I have three questions after reading the whole thing (at least three i can remember atm) 
1)Willard and some other characters mention that if Battler didn't return on 1986 but a year later or a year before the tragedy wouldn't have happened.
Why?
2)In episode 4 (alliance of the golden witch) chapter 20 page 44 what did Ange saw that needs love to be seen? I guess i don't have much cause i am still wondering:(
3In episode 4 chapter 22 Battler say in red that Battler's mother is Asumu and that Battler was born from Asumu, but he can't say that he is born from Asumu. I get why he can't say it and that he can say that Battler's mother is Asumu, but he shouldn't be able to say that Battler was born from Asumu.
Sorry for my english and thank so much WTDND

I have three questions after reading the whole thing (at least three i can remember atm) 

1)Willard and some other characters mention that if Battler didn't return on 1986 but a year later or a year before the tragedy wouldn't have happened.

Why?

2)In episode 4 (alliance of the golden witch) chapter 20 page 44 what did Ange saw that needs love to be seen? I guess i don't have much cause i am still wondering:(

3In episode 4 chapter 22 Battler say in red that Battler's mother is Asumu and that Battler was born from Asumu, but he can't say that he is born from Asumu. I get why he can't say it and that he can say that Battler's mother is Asumu, but he shouldn't be able to say that Battler was born from Asumu.

Sorry for my english and thank so much WTDND

She can't have baby because she's uh, probably originally a boy. It's in the confession of golden witch.

Spoilers, ahoy.

The issue of his/her gender is left open, noted by Rukishi as just another catbox. The dominant two 'personalities' suggest female, but her inability to have a baby suggests male. personally, i think in the extra scene where they show Yasu trying to put a tampon in at school, and her concern isn't 'there's not one there' but 'why haven't i gotten my period' means she's biologically female, but due to some horrific injury from the fall, has no functioning set of genitals. This cuts out her sex hormone production and ensures she is caught in a gender limbo.

Either way, Ryukishi says he/she has an imperfection on a genetic level, so that's what she means. This is where the 'furniture' thing comes in, she can't love because she can't have sex, deliver children, or do anything else like that.

There are spoiler in this comment.

 

I've had a doubt since ages: Just what is Shannon refereing to when she speaks about her "cursed body"? 

 

I assume it is the injury she recieved when she fall from the cliff when she was a baby, but the author, at least in the novel, never confirmed it in detail. Most probably, it give her some kind of damage in the brain, no? I mean, Yasu created an idilical version of Shannon in her mind, then created Clair, and after that she imagined Kanon existed to give her comfort... After that she become Beato and Kanon fall in love with Jessica... Man, she is really fucked up in the mind, she literally is "one and yet many"... We all know that's why she is futniture, a pseudo-human who isn't a complete human which makes her unable to create a universe (to love).

 

So the thing is, she doesn't want Battler to discover she is.... crazy, and choose to drowning herself instead? Is that so? Is that the form of her "curse"? Please, just say it if I'm wrong.       

She can't have baby because she's uh, probably originally a boy. It's in the confession of golden witch.

There are spoiler in this comment.

I've had a doubt since ages: Just what is Shannon refereing to when she speaks about her "cursed body"? 

I assume it is the injury she recieved when she fall from the cliff when she was a baby, but the author, at least in the novel, never confirmed it in detail. Most probably, it give her some kind of damage in the brain, no? I mean, Yasu created an idilical version of Shannon in her mind, then created Clair, and after that she imagined Kanon existed to give her comfort... After that she become Beato and Kanon fall in love with Jessica... Man, she is really fucked up in the mind, she literally is "one and yet many"... We all know that's why she is futniture, a pseudo-human who isn't a complete human which makes her unable to create a universe (to love).

So the thing is, she doesn't want Battler to discover she is.... crazy, and choose to drowning herself instead? Is that so? Is that the form of her "curse"? Please, just say it if I'm wrong.       

I want to cry

I'm cryin already, especially now after trying to play the game from ep 1 again ;_;

A fantastic end to the most epic story of my lifetime.

Thank you, to everyone involved with the project!

I want to cry

Yep, they did.

And now I can hear Akiko-sama's voice again… it was a long, long journey indeed…

A 50 volumes manga adaptation, and it never got an anime. =[

Oh shit did they just fucking answered everything in Umineko?

Actually, from what I've heard, her past will be revealed later on in this episode. Anyway, basically, in Higurashi, a little girl named Rika was unknowingly forced to solve a Logic Error. This put her through unspeakable trauma, and, in order to cope with it, she created an alternate personality named Frederika Bernkastel. Now, eventually, this Logic Error was solved, and, in order to allow Rika to move on, the Game Master, a being known as Hanyuu, separated them. Bernkastel grew to resent this, and was horrified that Rika was allowed to enjoy the happy days that followed, while Bernkastel was forced into the great unknown, and so, made it her mission to go out into the sea of fragments, crushing hopes and miracles everywhere.

There is also quite possibly a third version of Bernkastel, the one seen at the end of Higurashi. Though, as we see from AuAu, witches can 'grow up', so possibly this is just Bernkastel in the future. Her actions then are out of character, but if you read the 'Bone-Sama' manga Ryukishi illustrated, it does make the villain happier, but they still have a bad fate.

Ange looked so beautiful, and all grown up in chapter 33.

This, it might be too much for me. I can't wait to read the last four chapters.

This is better than the novel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=112&v=c2KbybRxJLQ

Related to Bernkastel. Her image song gives an interesting insight to her character,

Thank you WTDND, this series is great. Although i do wonder why the series aren't translated episode per episode, it's fine and somehow creates a nice atmosphere to the entire story. It's nothing reeeeeally important, but if Bernkastel's (idk how to write her name) past isn't show on the manga, can someone please tell me? Is it related to HIgurashi?

Actually, from what I've heard, her past will be revealed later on in this episode. Anyway, basically, in Higurashi, a little girl named Rika was unknowingly forced to solve a Logic Error. This put her through unspeakable trauma, and, in order to cope with it, she created an alternate personality named Frederika Bernkastel. Now, eventually, this Logic Error was solved, and, in order to allow Rika to move on, the Game Master, a being known as Hanyuu, separated them. Bernkastel grew to resent this, and was horrified that Rika was allowed to enjoy the happy days that followed, while Bernkastel was forced into the great unknown, and so, made it her mission to go out into the sea of fragments, crushing hopes and miracles everywhere.

Thank you WTDND, this series is great. Although i do wonder why the series aren't translated episode per episode, it's fine and somehow creates a nice atmosphere to the entire story. It's nothing reeeeeally important, but if Bernkastel's (idk how to write her name) past isn't show on the manga, can someone please tell me? Is it related to HIgurashi?

Im gonna start sobbing. These feels are tearing me apart, lisa.

Hmm so instead of quizzes the manga replace it with hide-and-seek games. And I notice some other changes too.

Well, at least this made it entertaining even for those who have finished the VN.

Blood on the doors? Nope.

Spoiler