Going in the Wrong Direction

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Aug 13 2017 09:45 PM

i dont see how red haired girl looks like shes bullying her too? it looks like she and the guy are showing off that shes "friendly" with her in front of sera (the real bully) in order to intimidate her. idk maybe im dumb and missing something but thats what it looks like. seems like a nice chick, if a bit scary

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GreatNinja

Aug 13 2017 08:32 PM

We're officially fucked next chapter.
"Hurr durr your bag was open" - Yeah bitch you totally didn't just sneak something in there.
It's a wallet or some bullshit and the second the teacher comes in the students will say "I think someone stole ----" and then they'll do a bag check.

I don't mind bullying arcs, they can be pretty interesting. But this one is just bland imo. We're just hitting all the checkboxes.
Not to mention the oh so boring - Don't talk to me at school shtick, cus DRAMA
I'll go ahead and agree as well that it's probably because the bully was interested in the Male-MC, but as always it'll never work out. I'm sure the author will try to redeem her in some fashion or make her into some sort of love rival.

Nah girl actually kind of nice well more like "i don't care so i'll do what ever I want" kind of thing.

Bully is kind weak though

Spoiler

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fulminata

Aug 13 2017 04:27 PM

Spoiler
From the future chapters, nah. It's more of the opposite.

to be honest, looking at the next chapters, I wonder why this tagged as "gag". It's more of a slice-of-life. There doesn't seem to be jokes or truly ridiculous situations.

Not that I'm complaining, I actually really like this story. Although there's some mystery on what happened to Sumi why she's acting like that, there isn't much that drama that usually felt suffocating.

Spoiler

- Kuroiikawa likes this

magevn

Aug 13 2017 03:16 AM

I'll go ahead and agree as well that it's probably because the bully was interested in the Male-MC, but as always it'll never work out. I'm sure the author will try to redeem her in some fashion or make her into some sort of love rival.

Spoiler

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sho.ker

Aug 12 2017 11:48 PM

We're officially fucked next chapter.

"Hurr durr your bag was open" - Yeah bitch you totally didn't just sneak something in there.

It's a wallet or some bullshit and the second the teacher comes in the students will say "I think someone stole ----" and then they'll do a bag check.

I don't mind bullying arcs, they can be pretty interesting. But this one is just bland imo. We're just hitting all the checkboxes.

Not to mention the oh so boring - Don't talk to me at school shtick, cus DRAMA

I'll go ahead and agree as well that it's probably because the bully was interested in the Male-MC, but as always it'll never work out. I'm sure the author will try to redeem her in some fashion or make her into some sort of love rival.

- CeaseActivity likes this

fulminata

Aug 03 2017 06:15 PM

Was . . . Kang Hwon jealous because Sumi is protecting another guy?

Spoiler

Also, for the chapter 8. Sumi is precious. Stay away, you ass!

Spoiler

pokari

Jul 08 2017 09:57 PM

Spoiler

You guys are so wrong about scanlation not hurting the artist/author here. A lot of sites like Naver and Lezhin require them to sign exclusive contracts, and by reposting their work (often times a scanlator will post downloads to untranslated work behind paywalls) those sites might have to look into taking legal action against the scanlators. Worst case they were planning an english translation themselves to put on their sister site, but with enough free scanlations being out they can cancel it because there's no incentive if it's already freely available this way. This means the artist and author might lose that revenue, or that the site will drop them all together because it's no longer profitable enough and dealing with unauthorized reposting/scanlating is too much of a hassle.

And I only know this because I have contacted artists of webtoons before, and one was threatened with having her whole comic and backlog demonetized because the english scanlation had become far too popular. Their publisher was starting to get to the point where it was too much effort and suspicious that she was supplying the raws since the rips were such high quality. The scanlators had opened "donations" too and with the language barrier the publisher automatically assumed they were reselling the comic. You don't even know how fucking close to the edge some of these webtoon artists are to being dropped because of scanlators actions.

So to complain your "scanlations" were reposted while begging for "donations" is fucking laughable. You're basically posting stolen goods while throwing a fit that other people "stole" them from you. So cut the shit and be thankful these artists can even create when you're deliberately putting their livelihoods at stake because you just really wanted the attention/money from reposting their work.

Spoiler

It is true that most of the arguments hashed out for and against scanlation are in the context of hard source material (i.e. not webtoons). FWIW, though, I'd recommend not attacking the motives of scanlators with such a broad brush here, it's not very friendly or constructive. (For instance: If you were to tell me I was "deliberately putting authors' livelihoods at stake" it might raise my hackles to the point where I wouldn't really be listening to anything else you had to say.)

As for webtoon authors getting in trouble because their bosses mistook fan-translations as authors' violating exclusivity clauses, this is the first I'd heard of it, though it makes enough sense, especially if I assume some editors at these publishers aren't savvy about how the internet works (esp. outside vs. inside of Korea).

Though I hope those publishers will learn to identify piracy more competently because as long as there's no way to get a legitimate translation the scanlations will continue...

As far as changing that status quo goes, I think Naver did something in the right direction with allowing fan translations for a subset of their English-site comics. Unfortunately it's kind of useless because it only allows using their tools for translation (I've only glanced at it but it seems you're basically using a text editor for predefined areas of text), is difficult to navigate meaningfully (though I feel that way about all of naver's English stuff), and seems to be strictly on an opt-in basis for I assume a combination of technical and legal reasons.

If they could have gone a few important steps further, then we could begin to talk about how we as a community might stop using fan-hosted stuff and end the inequities of scanlation once and for all (for webtoons, that is), and the authors could get paid for their stuff and everyone could be happy.

But that's not where we are now... and realistically I see reasons that it'll be hard to get there (legal and QC issues, mostly).

- Purple Library Guy likes this

magevn

Jul 08 2017 05:27 PM

So when one helps the other the helper becomes darker?

I think it's more that the Main female isn't what she appears to be or rather that Sumi had went from her seemingly brash and bold personality in primary school had undergo a more subtle and meek personality currently. From the hints and foreshadowing, something had probably happened during her middle school years had caused her to change (how in chapter 2, Sumi's sub-conscious had said how she always "suffocated" in middle school and when she woke up, she mentions how she had this dream "again") and in Chapter 6, she appears to not have a good relationship with her mother (Sumi seems to be very distant and avoids eye contact with her mom). I noticed that she had moved to a school where no one she knows in middle school is in.

I'm speculating that both kids had faced some sort of bullying during their middle school years that it affected both of them.

- Javia and coconutface like this

manualex

Jul 07 2017 06:30 PM

So when one helps the other the helper becomes darker?

sketchyskull

Jul 07 2017 03:48 PM

You guys are so wrong about scanlation not hurting the artist/author here. A lot of sites like Naver and Lezhin require them to sign exclusive contracts, and by reposting their work (often times a scanlator will post downloads to untranslated work behind paywalls) those sites might have to look into taking legal action against the scanlators. Worst case they were planning an english translation themselves to put on their sister site, but with enough free scanlations being out they can cancel it because there's no incentive if it's already freely available this way. This means the artist and author might lose that revenue, or that the site will drop them all together because it's no longer profitable enough and dealing with unauthorized reposting/scanlating is too much of a hassle.

And I only know this because I have contacted artists of webtoons before, and one was threatened with having her whole comic and backlog demonetized because the english scanlation had become far too popular. Their publisher was starting to get to the point where it was too much effort and suspicious that she was supplying the raws since the rips were such high quality. The scanlators had opened "donations" too and with the language barrier the publisher automatically assumed they were reselling the comic. You don't even know how fucking close to the edge some of these webtoon artists are to being dropped because of scanlators actions.

So to complain your "scanlations" were reposted while begging for "donations" is fucking laughable. You're basically posting stolen goods while throwing a fit that other people "stole" them from you. So cut the shit and be thankful these artists can even create when you're deliberately putting their livelihoods at stake because you just really wanted the attention/money from reposting their work.

- Urien, CeaseActivity, Laiseran and 2 others like this

CeaseActivity

Jul 02 2017 03:20 PM

I don't like the boy...and don't think that will change.

He does seem pretty bratty honestly. But with the right character development he might become really interesting.

- fulminata likes this

APines

Jun 30 2017 05:44 PM

I don't like the boy...and don't think that will change.

pokari

Jun 22 2017 01:06 AM

...so why does he agree to go with all of it?

Because spring is in the air~

...and if not that I have no idea. If this isn't headed towards (b)romance I really have no idea what's going on.

Spoiler
Mmm . . . I think it's not as twisted a viewpoint as you're suggesting. It's more of a utilitarian approach than a "rights-based" approach. That is, scanlation does not really decrease the utility of authors; it does not decrease their revenue, since the readers of free scanlations would not in any case buy publications they could not read, and it does increase their fame and in some cases leads to official English-language publication which can increase their revenue. The only way it can be bad for an author is if they happen to hear about it and don't like it, because the concept of copyright is very important to them. But copyright is, after all, a very new concept in the world (and was created to benefit publishers, not authors); rights to copy are not a universal ethic. It's kind of up to them whether it's going to bug them. Meanwhile, again from a utilitarian perspective, it's not like mangaka will stop writing or publishers will stop publishing because of scanlations, because again, scanlations don't lose them any revenue.

Scanlators aren't really materially harmed by outfits like MangaFox, either. But they will inevitably hear about it, and since they're not in it for revenue in the first place, nonmaterial rewards such as kudos are all they get from the task. Places denying them kudos (actually the opposite of what scanlators do with mangaka) and ignoring their wishes drastically reduce the "reward" they receive. One result has been that a number of scanlators have in fact stopped doing it in frustration at the antics of these places. Thus, not being nice to scanlators does really do harm, both to the scanlators and to the audience (by causing scanlators to scanlate less stuff). There is a utilitarian cost.

Now personally as a non-capitalist, it's my opinion that tangled ethical thickets are inevitable for production under capitalism, and particularly bad on issues surrounding "intellectual property". In a socialist economy, writers would be paid a solid wage to write if there were people who wanted to read their work, but not on a per-copy-sold basis, and electronic distribution would be free to all in the first place--there would be no such thing as copyright, only laws against misrepresentation (like, changing what someone writes but still attributing it to them). If distribution isn't based on markets you don't need to create artificial scarcity. In such a situation, scanlation would be not just normal and legal, but potentially paid work.

Spoiler

At times like these I try to remember that, as it turns out, intelligent people (a category for which I will take the liberty of assuming you, I, and anyone else reading this qualifies) do not tend to make especially more rational judgements than anyone else, especially where morality is involved, but rather we're just a hell of a lot better at justifying our positions to ourselves (and others). Or, so the studies say, and it seems to ring true in practice. It is in that frame of mind--to wit, as part of a continual striving to be aware of my own hypocrisy--that my original observations were made.

When one finds oneself twisting and turning over the problem to find the reasons that one's viewpoint is correct, it may be a hint that there is some room for introspection.

If you'll allow me to poke some holes in your specific arguments--

Most fundamentally, you argue that scanlators are hurt more because they aren't paid, and work only for the intrinsic satisfaction of the work and the extrinsic rewards of fan-appreciation. However, this seems fundamentally disingenuous--some mangaka are lucky enough that they can support themselves financially, but I've never heard of anyone becoming a mangaka for the money: The rewards of the occupation are, just like scanlation if not moreso, entirely intrinsic (or social).

One could argue that scanlation is more socially driven, vs. authorship being more intrinsically rewarding, or that barriers of language and social circles shield more mangaka from noticing their work has been redistributed without permission (and one might successfully argue that 'what you don't know won't hurt you' actually does apply here) but such arguments would seem to break down on a case-by-case basis, e.g. not every author is so insulated, and conceivably some mangaka would feel even more deeply hurt by unauthorized redistribution than even the most emotional of scanlation groups.

Incidentally, my own justification for supporting scanlation-but-not-Mangafox these days is simple: I don't care that much about violations of copyright so long as the violators either A. aren't profiting or B. are producing original work (e.g. doujinshi). Some provisions to prevent people from directly profiting from other people's works, a basic patent system, and forbidding misrepresentation of authorship/etc is all I think society really needs.

But once again, I try to occasionally remain aware that my feelings on intellectual property rights formed after I started consuming fansubs.

Spoiler

Oh, and if I sound condescending in any of this, sorry. It wasn't meant to read as such, for whatever that's worth. It's rather difficult to seriously posit the possibility of post-facto rationalization in someone's arguments without it coming off as an attack on ethos, and I perhaps lack the required delicacy.

- Purple Library Guy and fulminata like this

BCS

Jun 21 2017 06:07 PM

...so why does he agree to go with all of it?

fulminata

Jun 05 2017 06:49 AM

If you don't read the words, it looked like she is confessing or something in the last panel xD

- coconutface likes this

CeaseActivity

Jun 03 2017 08:22 AM

I'm happy to see chapter 3 was uploaded! Really enjoying this, great art

Purple Library Guy

Jun 02 2017 11:30 PM

Spoiler

In other news, it's actually not strange that "respectful" sites like bato.to are rare; Batoto is in the somewhat peculiar moral grey zone of respecting the rights of scanlators but not those of original authors.

Or put differently, Batoto is the paragon of scanlator-centric relativistic morality. A worldview which is near and dear to many of us (including myself) but is actually a very strange stance to take...

Spoiler

Mmm . . . I think it's not as twisted a viewpoint as you're suggesting. It's more of a utilitarian approach than a "rights-based" approach. That is, scanlation does not really decrease the utility of authors; it does not decrease their revenue, since the readers of free scanlations would not in any case buy publications they could not read, and it does increase their fame and in some cases leads to official English-language publication which can increase their revenue. The only way it can be bad for an author is if they happen to hear about it and don't like it, because the concept of copyright is very important to them. But copyright is, after all, a very new concept in the world (and was created to benefit publishers, not authors); rights to copy are not a universal ethic. It's kind of up to them whether it's going to bug them. Meanwhile, again from a utilitarian perspective, it's not like mangaka will stop writing or publishers will stop publishing because of scanlations, because again, scanlations don't lose them any revenue.

Scanlators aren't really materially harmed by outfits like MangaFox, either. But they will inevitably hear about it, and since they're not in it for revenue in the first place, nonmaterial rewards such as kudos are all they get from the task. Places denying them kudos (actually the opposite of what scanlators do with mangaka) and ignoring their wishes drastically reduce the "reward" they receive. One result has been that a number of scanlators have in fact stopped doing it in frustration at the antics of these places. Thus, not being nice to scanlators does really do harm, both to the scanlators and to the audience (by causing scanlators to scanlate less stuff). There is a utilitarian cost.

Now personally as a non-capitalist, it's my opinion that tangled ethical thickets are inevitable for production under capitalism, and particularly bad on issues surrounding "intellectual property". In a socialist economy, writers would be paid a solid wage to write if there were people who wanted to read their work, but not on a per-copy-sold basis, and electronic distribution would be free to all in the first place--there would be no such thing as copyright, only laws against misrepresentation (like, changing what someone writes but still attributing it to them). If distribution isn't based on markets you don't need to create artificial scarcity. In such a situation, scanlation would be not just normal and legal, but potentially paid work.

- Axe Armor and yellosubbub like this

fulminata

May 28 2017 06:30 AM

lol, mangafox actually uploaded chapter 2.1.

On a side note, what does 24 hour delay before rehosting get you?

Well, for one, it encourages readers to read there first-hence, increasing the visit count.

I also leave a comment or two there to support them in order to let them know I also read it on their site

- jessbp likes this

BCS

May 27 2017 08:05 PM

lol, mangafox actually uploaded chapter 2.1.

On a side note, what does 24 hour delay before rehosting get you?

pokari

May 27 2017 05:27 PM

Thanks for your comment. I don't want to drop it right away because I genuinely like this series. I really do spend a lot of my personal time scanlating these series so really the reason why I would drop it if this happens again is because I don't want to put in so much time and effort to not be credited in the end. And I'm sorry if it hurts the fans. I can only hope that fans of this series will not read on sites like mangafox/mangahere/mangago/kissmanga and read the chapters on my group's official site.

Yup, pretty much. That's how it is all around.

This seems like a good time to reference this old thread that explains at length what's going on behind the scenes at sites like Mangafox and why it's basically impossible to do anything about them, except maybe putting things in your chapters reminding readers (who may not know) that those sites are terrible.

Spoiler

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ghostyscanlations

May 27 2017 04:57 PM

So stop translating now so that those people will not stop stealing your jobs. :/

Unfortunately, there is no way to stop them.
Or do you habit or just stop translating.
I do not say it with wickedness, I respect you for what you do but this is a childish behavior. '^^

And the only ones you're really hitting are the fans that follow you respecting your work following where you are asking.

Thanks for your comment. I don't want to drop it right away because I genuinely like this series. I really do spend a lot of my personal time scanlating these series so really the reason why I would drop it if this happens again is because I don't want to put in so much time and effort to not be credited in the end. And I'm sorry if it hurts the fans. I can only hope that fans of this series will not read on sites like mangafox/mangahere/mangago/kissmanga and read the chapters on my group's official site.

- Ifrittuccia and TheWick'anFlame like this

ghostyscanlations

May 27 2017 04:54 PM

I understand groups get angry that their work is being uploaded without their permission but this has been going on forever and will continue. I don't understand how punishing your fanbase will help the situation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of the scanlation groups, but it's not gonna stop because you put up an angry message and the only ones who suffer from it are the fans.

Thanks for your comment. The thing is, I really enjoy this series as well. It's cute and interesting, and I want to see where it goes. I actually do spend a lot of my personal time working on scanlation projects, especially this one and I do not want to drop it. However, it's a bit upsetting to see that time go to waste when I'm not even credited for the work I put in. I hope that I didn't come off as going into a blind rage, because it's not like that.

- manalivee likes this

Ifrittuccia

May 27 2017 03:15 PM

So stop translating now so that those people will not stop stealing your jobs. :/

Unfortunately, there is no way to stop them.
Or do you habit or just stop translating.
I do not say it with wickedness, I respect you for what you do but this is a childish behavior. '^^

And the only ones you're really hitting are the fans that follow you respecting your work following where you are asking.

- darius404, Cancel and Deawax like this

Raxxon

May 27 2017 01:24 PM

I understand groups get angry that their work is being uploaded without their permission but this has been going on forever and will continue. I don't understand how punishing your fanbase will help the situation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of the scanlation groups, but it's not gonna stop because you put up an angry message and the only ones who suffer from it are the fans.

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darius404

May 27 2017 12:46 AM

I like it. It's an interesting dynamic. He doesn't seem to hold any grudge against her, on the contrary I think he respects her. On the other hand,

Spoiler

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Alt Names:	삐뚤어질테다
Author:	Henja
Artist:	Henja
Genres:	Comedy Drama School Life Shoujo Webtoon
Type:	Manhwa (Korean)
Status:	Ongoing
Description:	Ten years is enough time for a childhood friend to completely change- Baek Sumi, a leader of the neighborhood kids at a young age, protected her small and weak friend Kang Hwon from the other kids. However, at the high school entrance ceremony, the two met again as complete opposites! All the students are scared of Hwon's power, and it's coming back to Baek Sumi's ordinary high school life...
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