24 replies to this topic

[Gendalph]

There's a lot of mangas which are being published, but have been abandoned by scanalators.
What I suggest: modifying comics to contain information about scanalation status (ongoing/on hold/unknown=dropped). Modifying search to show an icon about scanalation status OR search filter to either show dropped manga or not.
 
upd:
This would make Batoto somewhat standalone, without the need to rely on mangaupdates and other similar sites. Also this would make Batoto much more comfortable to use.
Status should be editable by users - this system should be community-driven, this will allow it to be somewhat up to date.
 
If possible, it should reflect manga status in home country and scanalation status for the users selected language (if possible).
For that purpose it should be in two separate fields.
It would be also nice to store schedule for both publications and scanalations.
Examples:
Status: Ongoing (weekly)
Scanalation: Regular (by volume)
 
 
Status: Ongoing (monthly)
Scanalation: On hold
 
 
Status: Ongoing (weekly)
Scanalation: Irregular
 
 
Status: Hiatus
Scanalation: Finished
 
upd2:
Full list of scanalation statuses:

Spoiler

Regular - comes out in the same periods as manga does.
Regular (by volume) - volume released -> scanalated in few weeks.
Irregular (high priority) - scanalation is being worked on, but scanalator can't keep up with the original.
Irregular (low priority) - scanalation is being worked on, but only when scanalator is in mood/has time/etc. for it.
Finished (partially) - manga is finished/discontinued and all chapters are scanalated.
Finished - manga is finished/discontinued and all chapters and extras/specials are scanalated.
Up to date (partially) - manga is on hiatus and all published chapters are scanalated.
Up to date - manga is on hiatus and all published chapters and extras/specials are scanalated.
On hold - scanalation is on hold, and the scanalator has stated that they will continue scanalation in the future.
Dropped - scanalation is stopped and no groups have picked up this manga.

PS: sorry for not using search, all previous topics have been looked through, improvements added to this one.
Feel free to close this thread and give me a warning, though.

Edited by Genda1ph, 12 April 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[S.C.]

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/11266-increasing-the-manga-status/

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/9229-a-few-suggestions/

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/10201-small-change-on-manga-status/

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/5314-updated-frequency/

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/2941-hiatus-status/

Edited by S.C., 10 April 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[wintercry]

Status: Hiatus

Scanalation: Finished

 

I'm confused on this part. If the status of origin is on hiatus, then how could the scanlations be finished?

Edited by wintercry, 11 April 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[Gendalph]

This would mean that all published chapters have already been scanalated.

And after manga continues, scanalation status has to be changed.

[Daktyl]

Status: Hiatus

Scanalation: Finished

 

I suggest calling it "Up to date" not "Finished" in that sense.

[svines85]

You know, it sounds good on paper, but as has come up in the many other forum threads that have suggested these sorts of things,  the real question always comes down to just who's going to compile the vast amounts of information on the thousands upon thousands of titles you're talking about. Batoto is just a reader site, a composite of fan scanlated works, the suggestion you're making would be  an enormous amount of work for someone just to start, let alone to keep up with on a continuing basis. 

[wintercry]

This would mean that all published chapters have already been scanalated.

And after manga continues, scanalation status has to be changed.

 

Calling it "Finished" is rather misleading. Also, this system as a whole would require constant management which, after a while, people would either forgot or be lazy to continue.

Edited by wintercry, 12 April 2013 - 01:53 AM.

[Caidosdelanoche]

Maybe the thing about weekly, monthly and all that would require too much work, but I think something basic like the difference between status in the country of origin and the scanlator (just finished, ongoing or hiatus), wouldn't be so difficult to achieve, it would be similar to the ongoing/complete option right now, and it would be useful, specially to know if a manga is complete or in indefinite hiatus in the country of origin.

[Gendalph]

Keeping this up to date should be left to community. It's not that hard for scanalators or uploaders to change status on upload, and for users to change the status of an abandoned title.

Having documented conditions for each status, this system can rely on the community.

[seyrine]

Keeping this up to date should be left to community. It's not that hard for scanalators or uploaders to change status on upload, and for users to change the status of an abandoned title.

Having documented conditions for each status, this system can rely on the community.

Wouldn't that make Batoto more like Mangaupdates? It's already a community-editable database, assuming you have a profile. It has most of the items you would need (the few missing items would be whether the series is a weekly, monthly or bi-monthly among others). And the schedule of release by scanlators isn't something you can put on a database. Big groups like the Company or Red Hawk might be able to stick to a weekly schedule and accomplish it on the dot, but for most of the groups they will release a chapter when that chapter is finished and not one second earlier. 

[Gendalph]

This all is for the sake of convenience.
You can use mangaupdates, but Batoto's search cannot. If this info is added it would not require people to use mangaupdates.
Scanalation schedule is for users only - to see how soon they can expect a new chapter.
 

Big groups like the Company or Red Hawk might be able to stick to a weekly schedule and accomplish it on the dot, but for most of the groups they will release a chapter when that chapter is finished and not one second earlier.

It's fine, just add some more options for irregular, like high/low priority.
Full list of scanalation statuses should be:
Regular - comes out in the same periods as manga does.
Regular (by volume) - volume released -> scanalated in few weeks.
Irregular (high priority) - scanalation is being worked on, but scanalator can't keep up with the original.
Irregular (low priority) - scanalation is being worked on, but only when scanalator is in mood/has time/etc. for it.
Finished (partially) - manga is finished/discontinued and all chapters are scanalated.
Finished - manga is finished/discontinued and all chapters and extras/specials are scanalated.
Up to date (partially) - manga is on hiatus and all published chapters are scanalated.
Up to date - manga is on hiatus and all published chapters and extras/specials are scanalated.
On hold - scanalation is on hold, and the scanalator has stated that they will continue scanalation in the future.
Dropped - scanalation is stopped and no groups have picked up this manga.
 
Added this to the first post

Edited by Genda1ph, 12 April 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[Daktyl]

See, coming from one of those smaller groups I have experienced many cases where people don't check the group's site and just assume something is dropped if a chapter hasn't been released in a while (even if there are reasons for it).

 

This would eventually be one of the reasons this system would probably fail: wrong information given.

[Derek]

See, coming from one of those smaller groups I have experienced many cases where people don't check the group's site and just assume something is dropped if a chapter hasn't been released in a while (even if there are reasons for it).

 

This would eventually be one of the reasons this system would probably fail: wrong information given.

 

Basically this. I can't count the amount of times I've seen comments on here, other aggregator sites, hell, even RZK's actual site thinking that a series we do is dropped, even mere days after the last release for a series, when I post considerably regular updates regarding the status of series. It gets considerably frustrating at times.

 

As said, you can't label something like this. Doing something like this gives incredibly unrealistic expectations to the readers. A number of readers already expect to get their manga updated basically every single week (if not every day), even if the manga is weekly or caught up in its scanlation. Even groups like Red Hawk who primarily do Weekly manga get snags in their release schedule for one reason or another. Trying to do this just kind of tries to force some sort of release schedule on groups who don't and can't have one.

Edited by Derek, 12 April 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Gendalph]

See, coming from one of those smaller groups I have experienced many cases where people don't check the group's site and just assume something is dropped if a chapter hasn't been released in a while (even if there are reasons for it).
 
This would eventually be one of the reasons this system would probably fail: wrong information given.

 
 

Basically this. I can't count the amount of times I've seen comments on here, other aggregator sites, hell, even RZK's actual site thinking that a series we do is dropped, even mere days after the last release for a series, when I post considerably regular updates regarding the status of series. It gets considerably frustrating at times.
 
As said, you can't label something like this. Doing something like this gives incredibly unrealistic expectations to the readers. A number of readers already expect to get their manga updated basically every single week (if not every day), even if the manga is weekly or caught up in its scanlation. Even groups like Red Hawk who primarily do Weekly manga get snags in their release schedule for one reason or another. Trying to do this just kind of tries to force some sort of release schedule on groups who don't and can't have one.

 
Set status yourself upon upload and state in the comments that "We are working on the scanalation, but ... so please wait patiently for the update."
This should be described in FAQ (which, I hope, Grumpy will add) to ensure there will be less misunderstandings.
Another way out: notify last uploader and/or last scanalator about status change so they may keep it in check. The only drawback is - we can't notify anonymous groups/uploaders.
Yet another way out: make a service page where all status changes for all comics would be shown, so people who want to help could check whether they are legit or not.
Combining these two may give a solid solution for the problem.

 

Also - this is not forcing, just some info for readers. Everything should be stated in FAQ and/or rules.

[Derek]

Set status yourself upon upload and state in the comments that "We are working on the scanalation, but ... so please wait patiently for the update."
This should be described in FAQ (which, I hope, Grumpy will add) to ensure there will be less misunderstandings.
Another way out: notify last uploader and/or last scanalator about status change so they may keep it in check. The only drawback is - we can't notify anonymous groups/uploaders.
Yet another way out: make a service page where all status changes for all comics would be shown, so people who want to help could check whether they are legit or not.
Combining these two may give a solid solution for the problem.

 

Also - this is not forcing, just some info for readers. Everything should be stated in FAQ and/or rules.

 

The main problem with this is that a very large amount of people don't read. They really, just do not. Unless it is plastered in 100px, bright red, bolded, all caps text at the top of a page, they're not going to bother doing extra reading. Especially when it comes to something like this. Doing something like this puts even more completely unnecessary expectations on the scanlators by readers, and like I said before, essentially tries to force a release schedule on scanlators, no matter what is "listed" as its scanlation status on the pages.

 

This suggestion just does not work in any way shape or form, especially for scanlators.

Edited by Derek, 12 April 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[S.C.]

I wonder if this made it into the "Top 5 Most Unnecessary Suggestions On Batoto".

On a more serious note, who is supposed to do all that?

[Daktyl]

I wonder if this made it into the "Top 5 Most Unnecessary Suggestions On Batoto".

On a more serious note, who is supposed to do all that?

Now, I don't want to use you as an example but you pretty much just proved Derek's and my point: Nobody reads more than they have to. They skim over things.

 

Even if we set the status ourselves and add a comment to the page, eventually that comment is going to get buried down to the 2nd+ page of comments where nobody goes, and within days some ignorant person will change the status to "dropped". Then other people who don't bother reading will assume it's dropped because that's what it says on Batoto. Then they will go complaining to other groups that they want this series picked up and there will be chaos.

 

@S.C.

Keeping this up to date should be left to community. It's not that hard for scanalators or uploaders to change status on upload, and for users to change the status of an abandoned title.

Having documented conditions for each status, this system can rely on the community.

Basically, it would be community driven like most of the other data on Batoto.

[S.C.]

Now, I don't want to use you as an example but you pretty much just proved Derek's and my point: Nobody reads more than they have to. They skim over things.
 
Even if we set the status ourselves and add a comment to the page, eventually that comment is going to get buried down to the 2nd+ page of comments where nobody goes, and within days some ignorant person will change the status to "dropped". Then other people who don't bother reading will assume it's dropped because that's what it says on Batoto. Then they will go complaining to other groups that they want this series picked up and there will be chaos.
 
@S.C.
Basically, it would be community driven like most of the other data on Batoto.

I... actually did read it. Well, maybe I should have worded it differently. "Who would actually want to work on something, that requires an unholy amount of effort, and already exists!?" Like that?
Yes, I see he added additional points. But how the heck are those supposed be even the tiniest bit feasible, if most of the time, not even the people involved know?
And forcing groups to put out these information at any given time, would just cause unnecessary stress.
In the end, all you could do, is adding rough guess numbers, with no real meaning whatsoever.

Well, adding whether the magazine it's published in is weekly, monthly, w/e would be nice. But I'd rather see that added to mangaupdates.
 
Also, this sounds

This all is for the sake of convenience.
You can use mangaupdates, but Batoto's search cannot. If this info is added it would not require people to use mangaupdates.
Scanalation schedule is for users only - to see how soon they can expect a new chapter.

like he simply doesn't want to use mangaupdates.

[Gendalph]

lso, this sounds

like he simply doesn't want to use mangaupdates.

All I want is for this to be integrated with Batoto's search. If you can pull that out of mangaupdates - I'd be happy.

[S.C.]

Honestly, I don't even understand why you want to use the batoto search over the mangaupdates one. Because you want to take the road with the most rocks on it?

 

I think the biggest compromise that could be made here, is adding a managupdates shortcut to the side bar, or something like that.

Edited by S.C., 13 April 2013 - 07:15 PM.